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<title>Harald Welzer im Interview: „Der totale Rollback“ | taz.de </title>

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if (e.slot.getSlotElementId() == roadblocks[name][i]) {

if (e.isEmpty) {

unblock(id, roadblocks[name][i]);

}

else {

document.getElementById(id).style.display = 'none';

for (var key in roadblocks) {

if (!roadblocks.hasOwnProperty(key)) continue;

for (var j = 0; j < roadblocks[key].length; j++)

if (id == roadblocks[key][j]) {

unblock(get_id(key), roadblocks[key][j]);

break;

}

}

}

}

}

});

// pa.addEventListener

//console.log('roadblocks' + id);

googletag.display(id);

}

else {

pa.display('/53015287,118803185/' + name, sizes[name], id);

//console.log( 'asked for', '/53015287,118803185/'+ name, sizes[name], id );

}

// https://developers.google.com/publisher-tag/reference?hl=de

pa.addEventListener('slotRenderEnded', function (e) {

if (e.slot.getSlotElementId() != id) return;

// not our slot

container.trigger(e.isEmpty ?

'filOtaz_de.ads.gpt.noBanner' : 'filOtaz_de.ads.gpt.preBanner');

if (e.isEmpty) {

console.log("No ad delivered for slot:", e.slot.getSlotElementId());

container.addClass('isSlotRenderEndedEmpty');

container.closest('.ad_zone-container-inner').addClass('isSlotRenderEndedEmpty');

}

// added by mar prevent empty containers

container.addClass('isSlotRenderEnded');

container.closest('.ad_zone-container-inner').addClass('isSlotRenderEnded');

});

pa.addEventListener('slotResponseReceived', function (e) {

if (e.slot.getSlotElementId() != id) return;

container.addClass('slotResponseReceived')

});

pa.addEventListener('slotOnload', function (e) {

if (e.slot.getSlotElementId() != id) return;

container.addClass('slotOnload')

});

pa.addEventListener('slotRequested', function (e) {

if (e.slot.getSlotElementId() != id) return;

container.addClass('slotRequested')

});

});

} catch (err) {

$('body').addClass('prevent-ad-empty-space');

console.log('error in gpt activation', err)

}

}

console.time("AdLoad")

console.timeEnd("AdLoad")

})();

</script>

<noscript><img src="https://taz.de/stats/piwik.php?idsite=1&rec=1&action_name=NOSCRIPT" style="border:0" alt="piwik no script img"></img>

</noscript>

<meta name="taz:title" data-id="vn5838200" content="Harald Welzer im Interview: „Der totale Rollback“​"></meta>

<script id="piwik-init" type="text/javascript">

// === global members

let p;

let globalTrackingParam = '';

if ( location.hash.indexOf('#!formfill:') ==0 ) globalTrackingParam = '&'+ location.hash.split(':')[1] ;

if ( location.hash.indexOf('#matomo:') ==0 ) globalTrackingParam = '&'+ location.hash.split(':')[1].replaceAll('pk_', 'mtm_');

// ====================================================== taz piwik library === //

window.patOtaz_de = window.patOtaz_de || new Object;

window.patOtaz_de.piwik = window.patOtaz_de.piwik || new (function (debug) {

// for a better readability

Array.prototype.clone = Array.prototype.slice;

// ES6 features

var hasHistoryApi = function() {

if ( history && history.replaceState instanceof Function ) return true;

return false;

};

// === private static members

var version = "patOtaz_de.piwik-0.6",

debug = debug || false;

// === logging in debug mode or from outside

var log = function(args) {

if ( debug && arguments.length ) {

var items = [];

Array.prototype.push.apply( items, arguments );

console.log( "PIWIK-LOG:", items );

}

return true;

};

// === clean up strings with a whitelist

var removeCharsWithWhitelist = function(validChars, inputString) {

var regex = new RegExp( '[^'+ validChars +']', 'g' );

return inputString.replace( regex, '' );

};

// === clean up #matomo url fragment and return matomo part

var removeHashParam = function(fragment_key) {

if ( fragment_key === undefined ) return '';

// console.log('fragment_key ', fragment_key);

var href = location.href;

var href_base = href.split('#')[0];

var fragment_pos = href.indexOf('#');

var fragment_full = href.substring( fragment_pos +1 );

if ( fragment_pos >0 && fragment_key.length >0 ) {

var fragment_regex = new RegExp( '(.*?)#?'+ fragment_key +':([^#]+)#?(.*)' );

var fragment_match = fragment_full.match( fragment_regex );

if ( fragment_match ) {

var fragment_this = fragment_match[2];

var fragment_lhs = fragment_match[1];

var fragment_rhs = fragment_match[3];

var fragment_cleaned = ( fragment_lhs ? fragment_lhs : '' )+( fragment_lhs && fragment_rhs ? '#' : '' )+( fragment_rhs ? fragment_rhs : '' );

if ( fragment_this.length >0 ) {

// var new_href = href_base +( !fragment_lhs && !fragment_rhs ? '' : '#' )+ fragment_cleaned;

// if ( hasHistoryApi ) history.replaceState( {}, document.title, new_href );

return fragment_this;

}

}

}

return '';

};

// === track search results list page

var trackSiteSearch = function(keyword, category, count) {

var tmp = Array.prototype.clone.call( arguments );

tmp.unshift("trackSiteSearch");

_paq.push( tmp );

log( "search result", { keyword:keyword, category:category, count:count } );

return true;

};

// === track funnels

var trackFunnel = function(funnel, category) {

if ( funnel.length ) {

_paq.push([ 'trackEvent', category, 'Funnel', funnel ]);

log( "goal event", { funnel:funnel, category:category } );

}

return true;

};

// === track events

var trackEvent = function(category, action, name, value) {

var tmp = Array.prototype.clone.call( arguments );

tmp.unshift("trackEvent");

_paq.push( tmp );

log( "event", { category:category, action:action, name:name, value:value } );

return true;

}

// === debugging

log( version );

// === public interface

this.log =log;

this.removeHashParam =removeHashParam;

this.trackSiteSearch =trackSiteSearch;

this.trackFunnel =trackFunnel;

this.trackEvent =trackEvent;

// this.trackPageType =trackPageType;

})(false); // patOtaz_de.piwik

// ====================================================== piwik bucket === //

window._paq = window._paq || [];

// ====================================================== piwik setup === //

(function(){

// === private members

// changed by mar: web vs moby can not be serverside:

p = patOtaz_de.piwik,

o = {

version : "0.6" // String

, piwik_script : "https://taz.de/stats/piwik.php" // String

, page_id_enc : "vn5838200" // String

, page_title_enc : "vn5838200: Harald%20Welzer%20im%20Interview%3A%20%E2%80%9EDer%20totale%20Rollback%E2%80%9C"

, custom_url_enc : "/!vn5838200" // String

, channel : marOtaz_de.isMobile() ? 'moby' : 'web'

, area : "Verlag" // String

, department : "p4905" // String

, piwik_site_id : "1"

, is_tag : false // Boolean

, is_article : true // Boolean

, has_tags : false // Boolean -- careful: strange behaviour when using 'true' or 'false' as string. when serverside boolean is false than this will lead to Boolean(""), what is false in the end.

};

// === url decode strings

o.page_id =decodeURIComponent( o.page_id_enc );

o.page_title =decodeURIComponent( o.page_title_enc );

o.custom_url =decodeURIComponent( o.custom_url_enc );

// === page title

!function( node ) {

try {

var id = node.getAttribute('data-id').toString()

, title = node.getAttribute('content').toString()

;

o.title = ( id.length >0 && title.length >0 ) ? id +": "+ title : "ZOMBIE";

} catch (err) {

o.title = "ZOMBIE";

console.log("ERROR-piwik: page title");

}

} ( document.head.querySelector( 'meta[ name="taz:title" ]' ) );

// === page url

o.url = location.href;

// === process and clean #matomo fragment, if present

o.url_fragment = decodeURIComponent( p.removeHashParam('matomo') );

if ( o.url_fragment.length >0 ) o.custom_url += '#'+ o.url_fragment;

// === track tags

if ( o.is_article && o.has_tags ) {

o.tag_list=[];

o.tag_list.toString = function() {

var string="";

// Get tag title and concat. So that no permutations are stored for the same set of tags, pull tag titles sorted by their id.

this.sort( function(a,b){ return ( parseInt(a.id) - parseInt(b.id) ) } ).forEach( function(tag){ string += tag.title +";" });

return string;

};

!function( tag_list ) {

var count=0;

try {

tag_list.forEach( function(tag) {

o.tag_list.push({

title :tag.getAttribute('content')

,id :tag.getAttribute('data-tag-id')

,category :tag.getAttribute('data-tag-category')? tag.getAttribute('data-tag-category'): "PLAIN-VANILLA"

});

count++;

});

if (count===0) o.tag_list.push({ title:'ZOMBIE', id:0, category:'ZOMBIE' });

o.tag_list.string = o.tag_list.toString();

// console.log("tag_list", o.tag_list);

} catch(err) {

o.tag_list.push({ title:'ZOMBIE', id:0, category:'ZOMBIE' });

console.log("ERROR-piwik: tag_list");

}

}( document.head.querySelectorAll("meta[name='taz:tag']") );

}

// === setup piwik bucket

_paq.push([ "setCustomUrl" ,o.custom_url ]);

_paq.push([ "setDocumentTitle" ,o.page_title ]);

// debug parameters

//console.log('piwik setup', o);

_paq.push([ "setCustomVariable" ,1 ,"channel" ,o.channel ,"page" ]);

_paq.push([ "setCustomVariable" ,2 ,"area" ,o.area ,"page" ]);

_paq.push([ "setCustomVariable" ,3 ,"department" ,o.department ,"page" ]);

if ( o.is_article && o.has_tags ) _paq.push([ "setCustomVariable", 4, "tag", o.tag_list.toString(), "page" ]);

_paq.push([ "trackPageView" ]);

_paq.push([ "enableLinkTracking" ]);

// === load and setup piwik tracking

(function() {

var d=document

, g=d.createElement("script")

, s=d.getElementById("piwik-init")

;

_paq.push([ "setTrackerUrl" ,o.piwik_script ]);

_paq.push([ "setSiteId" ,o.piwik_site_id ]);

g.type = "text/javascript";

g.id = "piwik-loaded";

g.async = true;

g.defer = true;

g.src = "https://taz.de/lib/share/js/piwik.js";

g.onload = function() { p.log( 'setup', o ) }

s.parentNode.insertBefore( g, s );

})();

// === tag tracking

if ( o.is_article && o.has_tags ) {

o.tag_list.forEach( function(tag) { p.trackEvent( "TAG", "TAG-ARTICLE-"+ tag.category, "TAG - t"+ tag.id +": "+ tag.title ) });

}

if ( o.is_tag ) {

p.trackEvent( "TAG", "TAG-LANDINGPAGE", "TAG - "+ o.title );

}

// === debugging

//p.log( _paq );

// remove hash: see #16555

// this is running for the way from one url to another, but not for more

if( location.hash.indexOf('#!formfill:') ==0 || location.hash.indexOf('#matomo:') ==0 ) {

if( history && history.replaceState instanceof Function ){

history.replaceState({}, document.title, location.href.split('#')[0] );

}

}

})(); // piwik setup

// some events taken from olf frontend (custom-piwik.js)

function trackEventBasedOnCondition(selector, category, action, name) {

if (document.querySelector(selector)) {

//console.log('trackEvent', category, action, name);

p.trackEvent(category, action, name);

}

}

function trackClickEvent(selector, category, action, name) {

document.addEventListener("click", function(event) {

if (event.target.closest(selector)) {

p.trackEvent(category, action, name);

}

});

}

// you find this events matomo main dashbooard or under behaviour

document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function() {

setTimeout(function() { trackEventBasedOnCondition("body.isArticle", 'element', 'displayed', document.querySelector("#tzi-paywahl-fg") ? 'ARTIKELAUFRUF_mit_Layer' : 'ARTIKELAUFRUF_ohne_Layer');}, 1000);

trackEventBasedOnCondition("body.isAuthor", 'element', 'displayed', 'AUTHOR-PAGE');

trackEventBasedOnCondition("body.isArticle", 'element', 'displayed', 'ARTIKELAUFRUF');

trackEventBasedOnCondition("body.isLongread", 'element', 'displayed', 'ARTIKELAUFRUF-LONGREAD');

trackClickEvent("#tzi-paywahl-fg .tzi-paywahl__yes", 'tzi', 'clicked', 'LAYER-JA');

trackClickEvent("#tzi-paywahl-fg .tzi-paywahl__close", 'tzi', 'clicked', 'LAYER-GERADE-NICHT');

trackClickEvent("#tzi-paywahl-fg .tzi-paywahl__subscriber", 'tzi', 'clicked', 'LAYER-SCHON-DABEI');

trackClickEvent("#tzi-shackle .tzi-shackle__yes", 'tzi', 'clicked', 'LASCHE-JA');

// if you want to track SM buttons

// trackClickEvent("#meineiddesbuttons", 'element', 'clicked', 'MEINE BEZEICHUNG FÜR DEN BUTTON IN MATOMO');

// bestr place for this?

document.body.classList.add('js-is-active');

// css helpers + feature detection here

if (CSS.supports('selector(:has(*))')) {

document.body.classList.add('css-has-supported');

} else {

document.body.classList.add('css-has-not-supported');

}

const isSafari = navigator.vendor && navigator.vendor.indexOf('Apple') > -1 &&

navigator.userAgent &&

navigator.userAgent.indexOf('CriOS') == -1 &&

navigator.userAgent.indexOf('FxiOS') == -1;

if (isSafari) document.documentElement.classList.add('is-safari');

})

</script>

</head>

<div x-cloak="" class="header-nav-wing " :class="wingIsActive ? 'is-active' : ''">

<nav class="header-nav-wing-inner is-align-items-flex-start p-small pt-medium pb-xlarge" :class="[{ closing: closing, 'is-hidden': !wingIsActive }]" aria-label="Hauptnavigation öffnen" aria-modal="true" role="dialog" x-data="{closing: false}" @click.outside="wingIsActive = false" @keydown.escape.window="wingIsActive = false" :aria-hidden="!wingIsActive">

<div class="is-flex is-align-items-center ">

<form x-data="{searchWord: ''}" role="search" class="taz-wing-search full mgr-medium is-flex is-align-items-center " method="POST" action="https://taz.de/!s=/">

<p class="is-flex is-align-items-center full mgr-medium">

<input @keyup=" searchWord = $el.value.toLowerCase()" name="s" minlength="2" required="required" type="text" id="wing-search" class=" ph-medium full taz-wing-search__input has-background-light-button has-text-text" placeholder="taz.de durchsuchen" aria-label="Inhalte suchen" x-effect="if (!isMobile && wingIsActive) $el.focus()">

<button type="submit" class="icon pl-medium pr-small center suche_redhov small" aria-label="Suche absenden" style="margin-left: -100px; height: 24px"></button>

</input></p>

</form>

<p>

<button type="button" @click="closing = true" @click.debounce="wingIsActive = false; closing = false" class="mgl-auto icon small close_redhov wing-close-button" aria-label="Dialogfenster schließen">

</button>

</p>

<span aria-hidden="true"></span>

</div>

<div class="mgt-medium dotted-inline is-relative"></div>

<div class="is-flex is-align-items-center is-justify-content-center">

<p class="full is-justify-content-center">

<a x-data="{allowTransform: true}" href="/taz-zahl-ich/ihnen-liegt-die-taz-am-herzen/!v=bd8182f9-0363-4f43-936f-7a2f0666b18c/#matomo:pk_campaign=tzi-Standard&pk_source=taz.de&pk_medium=taz.de-Redaktion&pk_content=aus-kampagne&pk_kwd=tzi-standardkampagne&pk_placement=cta-button-nav" x-init="$el.setAttribute('href', $el.getAttribute('href') + '&amp;via=cta-button-nav'); if ($($el).closest('.header-nav-wing').length || $($el).closest('.navbar-start').length) { allowTransform = false}" title="Dann haben wir eine Bitte: Unterstützen Sie uns mit einem freiwilligen Beitrag. Denn damit taz.de auch weiterhin frei zugänglich bleibt, sind wir auf unsere Leser:innen angewiesen. 50.000 Menschen unterstützen uns bereits. Schon ab 5 Euro sichern Sie unseren Journalismus und die Zukunft der taz. Sind Sie dabei?" style="min-width: 0; padding-top: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px;" class=" button ph-xsmall mgt-0 mgl-small-mobile mgr-small is-flex is-align-items-center is-flex-shrink-0 pulse-animation ph-medium line-height-reset navbar-second-level-link t-decoration-none typo-teaser-text-secondary-bold pr-small-mobile pl-small-medium-mobile" :class="[(isMobile || isScrolled) && allowTransform ? 'has-background-white' : 'has-background-main', !allowTransform ? ' full mgt-medium is-justify-content-center ' : '']" aria-label="taz zahl ich">

<span x-cloak="" class="icon no-hover mgr-xsmall small use-icon-by-unicode " :class="(isMobile || isScrolled) && allowTransform ? 'has-text-main' : ' has-text-white '">&#xE808</span>

<span class="is-sr-only">taz zahl ich</span>

<span class="navbar-second-level-link-inner has-text-white is-flex-shrink-0" :class=" (isMobile || isScrolled) && allowTransform ? ' is-hidden' : ''" :aria-hidden="(isMobile || isScrolled) && allowTransform">

taz zahl ich

</span>

</a>

</p>

</div>

<ul class=" mgt-medium is-flex is-flex-direction-column ">

<li class="pv-small level-0

first-item

has-border-top

">

<details>

<summary class="is-flex">

<a class="typo-drawer-head-section full " href="/Themen/!p5360/">

themen

</a>

<div class="vertical-line-left-before ph-small is-relative " style="width: 24px; height: 24px; ">

<span class=" icon small show_more_grey_redhov no-hover"></span>

</div>

</summary>

<ul>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

first-item

mgt-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="/Israel/!t5007708/">

israel

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="/Serbien/!t5007965/">

serbien

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="/Brasilien/!t5010174/">

brasilien

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="/Schwerpunkt-USA-unter-Trump/!t5079612/">

usa unter trump

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pt-small

last-item

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="/Sozialproteste/!t5014728/">

sozialproteste

</a>

</li>

</ul>

</details>

</li>

<li class="pv-small level-0

has-border-top

">

<details>

<summary class="is-flex">

<a class="typo-drawer-head-section full " href="https://taz.de/Politik/!p4615/">

politik

</a>

<div class="vertical-line-left-before ph-small is-relative " style="width: 24px; height: 24px; ">

<span class=" icon small show_more_grey_redhov no-hover"></span>

</div>

</summary>

<ul>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

first-item

mgt-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Deutschland/!p4616/">

deutschland

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Europa/!p4617/">

europa

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Amerika/!p4618/">

amerika

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Afrika/!p4621/">

afrika

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Asien/!p4619/">

asien

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Nahost/!p4620/">

nahost

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pt-small

last-item

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Politik/Netzpolitik/!p4622/">

netzpolitik

</a>

</li>

</ul>

</details>

</li>

<li class="pv-small level-0

has-border-top

">

<details>

<summary class="is-flex">

<a class="typo-drawer-head-section full " href="https://taz.de/Oeko/!p4610/">

öko

</a>

<div class="vertical-line-left-before ph-small is-relative " style="width: 24px; height: 24px; ">

<span class=" icon small show_more_grey_redhov no-hover"></span>

</div>

</summary>

<ul>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

first-item

mgt-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Oekonomie/!p4623/">

ökonomie

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Oekologie/!p4624/">

ökologie

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Arbeit/!p4629/">

arbeit

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Konsum/!p4625/">

konsum

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Verkehr/!p4628/">

verkehr

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Wissenschaft/!p4636/">

wissenschaft

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pt-small

last-item

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Oeko/Netzoekonomie/!p4627/">

netzökonomie

</a>

</li>

</ul>

</details>

</li>

<li class="pv-small level-0

has-border-top

">

<details>

<summary class="is-flex">

<a class="typo-drawer-head-section full " href="https://taz.de/Gesellschaft/!p4611/">

gesellschaft

</a>

<div class="vertical-line-left-before ph-small is-relative " style="width: 24px; height: 24px; ">

<span class=" icon small show_more_grey_redhov no-hover"></span>

</div>

</summary>

<ul>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

first-item

mgt-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Gesellschaft/Alltag/!p4632/">

alltag

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Gesellschaft/Reportage-und-Recherche/!p5265/">

reportage und recherche

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

pv-small

has-border-top ">

<a class=" full typo-drawer-subsection pv-small" href="https://taz.de/Gesellschaft/Debatte/!p4633/">

debatte

</a>

</li>

<li class="full level-1

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<h1 class="headline column is-8-desktop is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet-only mgt-xlarge mgh-auto-desktop seiteneinstieg-news mobile-order-1">

<span class="is-flex headline typo-topline mgb-small ">Harald Welzer im Interview</span>

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Das Klima wird der Sicherheit untergeordnet – Sprache und Mentalitäten militarisieren sich. Der totale Rollback, meint Harald Welzer.

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9.3.2022

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17:38 Uhr

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Harald Welzer sieht den totalen Rollback: Eine rasante Militarisierung der Sprache und der Mentalitäten auf Kosten des Klimas

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Von

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<p class="bodytext paragraph first typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-1" pos="1"><em>taz lab</em>, 09.03.22 | Von <strong><a href="https://taz.de/Mareike-Barmeyer/!a19031/" class="link in-text-link">MAREIKE BARMEYER</a></strong></p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-2" pos="2">

<strong>taz lab: Herr Welzer, das Thema des taz lab bleibt Klima und Klasse, aber wir müssen auch über den Krieg sprechen. Inwiefern beeinflusst dieser Krieg den Klimatransformationsprozess?</strong>

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<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-3" pos="3"><strong>Harald Welzer:</strong> Der Krieg beeinflusst den Klimatransormationsprozess radikal. Und zwar, weil es einen totalen Rollback gibt in fast jeder Hinsicht. Man kann jetzt schon ablesen, dass das Klimathema nach hinten geordnet wird, hinter das Thema Sicherheit. Und man wird in nächster Zeit jede Form von Energie, die verfügbar ist, heranziehen, um den Ausfall der russischen Energieimporte zu kompensieren – Fracking-Produkte, Kohle, alles, was brennt.</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-4" pos="4">

<strong>Und welchen Einfluss hat der Krieg auf unsere Gesellschaft im Allgemeinen?</strong>

</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-5" pos="5">Was die innere Verfasstheit angeht, da staunen wir doch sehr stark, wie innerhalb von einer Woche eine Militarisierung der Sprache und womöglich auch der Mentalitäten funktioniert. Im Grunde ist all das, was passiert, das Gegenteil von dem, wofür unsereiner mal vor 30 oder 40 Jahren angetreten ist.</p>

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<h2 class="typo-short-text-head ">taz lab Service</h2>

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<p class="bodytext paragraph">■ <strong>taz lab 2022</strong> – Klima &amp; Klasse, am 30. April 2022 ab 08.30 Uhr live im Stream auf tazlab.de</p>

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<p class="bodytext paragraph">■ <strong>Tickets</strong> für das digitale taz lab 2022 <a href="https://taz.de/!172598/" target="_blank" class="link in-text-link">erhalten Sie hier</a>.</p>

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<p class="bodytext paragraph">■ <strong>Das Programm</strong> des taz lab 2022 <a href="https://taz.de/programm/2022/tazlab2022/de/index.html" target="_blank" class="link in-text-link">finden Sie hier</a>.</p>

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<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-7" pos="6">

<strong>Hat Klasse im Klimatransformationsprozess eine Rolle gespielt, tut sie das noch und hat sich diese Rolle verändert?</strong>

</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-8" pos="7">Die Klassenfrage stellt sich in einem marxschen Sinn hier gar nicht. Aber immerhin spielt die soziale Frage im Kontext der Energiewende schon eine große Rolle. Die CSU ruft ja schon nach einer Spritpreisbremse, und die Pendlerpauschale wurde auch gleich erhöht.</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-9" pos="8">

<strong>Sehen Sie irgendwo eine positive Entwicklung?</strong>

</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-10" pos="9">Meine Katzen sind positiv gesonnen und erfreuen sich bester Gesundheit. Das ist das Positive, das ich im Moment sehen kann.</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-11" pos="10">

<strong>Wie geht denn weiter, wenn dieser Krieg aufhört? Ich tue mich, sicher wie viele, sehr schwer zu sehen, was danach kommt...</strong>

</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-12" pos="11">Niemand weiß genau, was danach kommt. Wir wissen nicht, wie lange der Krieg geht und dementsprechend wissen wir auch nicht, was der mögliche Zustand danach sein wird. Ob es einen Waffenstillstand gibt, ob es Friedensverhandlungen gibt, ob es eine Aufteilung der Ukraine gibt, ob der Krieg sich weiter entgrenzt. Das sind ja alles Dinge, die wir gegenwärtig nicht wissen und alle machen sie unterschiedliche Zukünfte. Also, keine Ahnung.</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-13" pos="12">

<strong>Was wünschen Sie sich denn?</strong>

</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-14" pos="13">Ich bin wunschlos unglücklich.</p>

<p class="bodytext paragraph typo-bodytext is-block column pv-0 is-8-tablet mgh-auto-tablet mobile-order-15" pos="14">

<em>Harald Welzer spricht <a href="https://taz.de/lab/!p4905/" class="link in-text-link">auf dem taz lab</a> am 30. April 2022 zur „Theoriebedürftigkeit der gegenwärtigen Lage“.</em>

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Unsere wochentaz bietet jeden Samstag Journalismus, der es nicht allen recht macht und Stimmen, die man woanders nicht hört. Jetzt zehn Wochen lang kennenlernen.

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{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","articleBody":"\n \n taz lab, 09.03.22 | Von MAREIKE BARMEYER\n \n taz lab: Herr Welzer, das Thema des taz lab bleibt Klima und Klasse, aber wir müssen auch über den Krieg sprechen. Inwiefern beeinflusst dieser Krieg den Klimatransformationsprozess?\n \n Harald Welzer: Der Krieg beeinflusst den Klimatransormationsprozess radikal. Und zwar, weil es einen totalen Rollback gibt in fast jeder Hinsicht. Man kann jetzt schon ablesen, dass das Klimathema nach hinten geordnet wird, hinter das Thema Sicherheit. Und man wird in nächster Zeit jede Form von Energie, die verfügbar ist, heranziehen, um den Ausfall der russischen Energieimporte zu kompensieren – Fracking-Produkte, Kohle, alles, was brennt.\n \n Und welchen Einfluss hat der Krieg auf unsere Gesellschaft im Allgemeinen?\n \n Was die innere Verfasstheit angeht, da staunen wir doch sehr stark, wie innerhalb von einer Woche eine Militarisierung der Sprache und womöglich auch der Mentalitäten funktioniert. Im Grunde ist all das, was passiert, das Gegenteil von dem, wofür unsereiner mal vor 30 oder 40 Jahren angetreten ist.\n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\ntaz lab Service\n\n\n\n\n\n\n■ taz lab 2022 – Klima &amp; Klasse, am 30. April 2022 ab 08.30 Uhr live im Stream auf tazlab.de\n \n ■ Tickets für das digitale taz lab 2022 erhalten Sie hier.\n \n ■ Das Programm des taz lab 2022 finden Sie hier.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n■ Außerdem wöchentliche Berichte in der taz am Wochenende, im taz-lab-Infobrief und auf unserem Portal.■ Fragen, Wünsche, Feedback – schreiben Sie uns: tazlab@taz.de\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \n Hat Klasse im Klimatransformationsprozess eine Rolle gespielt, tut sie das noch und hat sich diese Rolle verändert?\n \n Die Klassenfrage stellt sich in einem marxschen Sinn hier gar nicht. Aber immerhin spielt die soziale Frage im Kontext der Energiewende schon eine große Rolle. Die CSU ruft ja schon nach einer Spritpreisbremse, und die Pendlerpauschale wurde auch gleich erhöht.\n \n Sehen Sie irgendwo eine positive Entwicklung?\n \n Meine Katzen sind positiv gesonnen und erfreuen sich bester Gesundheit. Das ist das Positive, das ich im Moment sehen kann.\n \n Wie geht denn weiter, wenn dieser Krieg aufhört? Ich tue mich, sicher wie viele, sehr schwer zu sehen, was danach kommt...\n \n Niemand weiß genau, was danach kommt. Wir wissen nicht, wie lange der Krieg geht und dementsprechend wissen wir auch nicht, was der mögliche Zustand danach sein wird. Ob es einen Waffenstillstand gibt, ob es Friedensverhandlungen gibt, ob es eine Aufteilung der Ukraine gibt, ob der Krieg sich weiter entgrenzt. Das sind ja alles Dinge, die wir gegenwärtig nicht wissen und alle machen sie unterschiedliche Zukünfte. Also, keine Ahnung.\n \n Was wünschen Sie sich denn?\n \n Ich bin wunschlos unglücklich.\n \n Harald Welzer spricht auf dem taz lab am 30. April 2022 zur „Theoriebedürftigkeit der gegenwärtigen Lage“.\n \n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n10 Wochen für 10 Euro\n\n\n\nDie wochentaz\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nDie neue taz FUTURZWEI\n\n\n\nDie Welt muss wieder schön werden\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLittle Sun Charger\n\n\n\nSonne fürs Mobiltelefon\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \n \n ","isAccessibleForFree":"true","mainEntityOfPage":"https://taz.de/Harald-Welzer-im-Interview/!vn5838200/","url":"https://taz.de/Harald-Welzer-im-Interview/!vn5838200/","headline":"Harald Welzer im Interview: „Der totale Rollback“","description":"Das Klima wird der Sicherheit untergeordnet – Sprache und Mentalitäten militarisieren sich. Der totale Rollback, meint Harald Welzer.","image":"https://taz.de/picture/5439111/948/harald-welzer.jpg","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Mareike Barmeyer","url":"https://taz.de/Mareike-Barmeyer/!a19031/"}],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"taz","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://taz.de/lib/taz-verlag-node/icons/DT_taz_logo-min.svg"}},"datePublished":"2022-03-09T17:38:00+02:00"}

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