IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, March 21, 2022

beginning of new day, March 21

00:00 techrights_guest|11; " which is non-conformist <- hacker culture used to be non-conformist at least." - is it not anymore? I thought this was an absolute with the culture itself?

00:00 matey; mark my words, kuhn wants free software to be singapore, just without the cane

00:01 matey; is it not anymore? <- really hacker culture is still non-conformist, but this is my whole point

00:01 matey; rms created free software to preserve hacker culture! hacker culture is non-conformist!

00:01 matey; theyre removing the very thing rms created free software to preserve, and calling it free software

00:02 matey; rms created free software to preserve hacker culture! <- read his biography, the one sam williams wrote that the fsf published and sold

00:02 matey; what we have today is NOTHING like free software

00:02 techrights_guest|11; ok got it. i will read this.

00:02 matey; its more like singapore without the cane

00:03 matey; non-conformity + corporate culture = corporate culture

00:03 matey; this isnt a new problem

00:03 matey; "you want obedience? youll get obedient fools!"-- lenin

00:04 matey; kind of oldschool, still relevant

00:04 techrights_guest|11; it is still relevent. i agree.

00:07 techrights_guest|11; ok this one yes? https://www.fsf.org/blogs/gnu-press/innovative-biography-of-rms-returns-to-gnu-press-shop

00:07 TR Bot; Innovative biography of RMS returns to GNU Press Shop Free Software Foundation Working together for free software

00:08 matey; without looking, that basically has to be it

00:08 techrights_guest|11; ok

00:08 matey; note i owned it (bought it from the fsf)

00:08 schestowitz-TR; they edited it a bit

00:08 matey; id already read it before that, it was published by o'reilly o'riginally

00:08 schestowitz-TR; oreall y?

00:08 techrights_guest|11; ok so is there an unedited version?

00:09 matey; no, oreilly

00:09 matey; the edits are minor

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00:10 matey; i dont know if they left in the epilogue awhere williams says that rms was dropping bits of hair in his soup and staring at his wife

00:10 techrights_guest|11; ok i found a first edition it has a different cover than the second edition,

00:10 matey; people with autism stare a lot. whether stallman does it inappropriately has been addressed by supporters from as high up on the progressive totem as the former president of the aclu

00:10 techrights_guest|11; Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/72f04f7a7d5e0752f4709ecfda4823a6/Screenshot_2022-03-20_17-09-55.png

00:10 Alternative link; Cloudflare: kiwiirc.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/72f04f7a7d5e0752f4709ecfda4823a6/Screenshot_2022-03-20_17-09-55.png

00:11 techrights_guest|11; first edition?

00:11 techrights_guest|11; Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/a432c526c7667dd0daf3eb096be3ff00/Screenshot_2022-03-20_17-10-10.png

00:11 Alternative link; Cloudflare: kiwiirc.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/a432c526c7667dd0daf3eb096be3ff00/Screenshot_2022-03-20_17-10-10.png

00:11 techrights_guest|11; second edition

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00:12 mjg59_; matey: No, the RMS-edited edition removes that

00:12 mjg59_; I've got a diff of the edits somewhere

00:12 matey; mjg59_: it was unnecessary to put in the book, and also unnecessary to remove from it once it was there

00:13 matey; besides that, if i had, as williams, included that note

00:13 matey; it wouldnt be as an awkward aside at the last minute, and it would try to be... then again, im a supporter

00:14 matey; i like the additional context

00:14 mjg59_; It's a bit odd for RMS to have added content referring to himself in the third person, but meh

00:14 matey; It's a bit odd for RMS to have added content referring to himself in the third person <- he usually doesnt

00:14 techrights_guest|11; so either is good then?

00:15 matey; either is good <- there are no significant differences imo

00:15 techrights_guest|11; ok. thanks

00:15 matey; i might change my mind about that someday, but its been years

00:16 mjg59_; He didn't actually remove the entire appendix, just various bits of it (including the picture of his pleasure card)

00:16 DaemonFC; "<matey> people with autism stare a lot. whether stallman does it inappropriately has been addressed by supporters from as high up on the progressive totem as the former president of the aclu"

00:16 matey; i wonder if anyone advised him to do so

00:16 DaemonFC; "Don't mind me undressing you with my eyes, it's the Autism, you see."

00:17 matey; he has always struck me as the sort of person to leave things in, unless someone advises him to do otherwise-- OR,

00:17 matey; i imagine there are changes to phrases like "intellectual property" etc

00:17 matey; i believe the original was under a cc license, but i dont know if it allowed commercial redistribution (i read it many years ago) without the fsf getting permission

00:18 DaemonFC; I try to steer clear of anything that starts talking about "Intellectual Property".

00:18 DaemonFC; Not always successfully. But when Ubuntu started threatening people with it, I took notice.

00:18 DaemonFC; "Ubuntu Patents", whatever those are. They mostly just compile other people's software and act like that gives them special rights when it does not.

00:19 techrights_guest|11; ubuntu , really how does that work

00:19 matey; i should note that im turned off by retconning except for clarification and accuracy

00:19 DaemonFC; Even when they have something exclusive, it's usually just a shitty quasi-Free implementation of something else that works better than theirs.

00:19 DaemonFC; Like, notice how Flatpak doesn't have any shitty daemon running whether you use it or not that's sucking down 300 MB or RAM?

00:20 DaemonFC; Flatpak has the concept of repositories. You can always add more if you want to.

00:20 DaemonFC; Snap has "branding" but it's always Canonical's store, and they keep how that works a secret.

00:20 DaemonFC; <techrights_guest|11> ubuntu , really how does that work

00:21 DaemonFC; Plagiarism, mostly.

00:21 matey; the first thought i had when i bought the fsf version was "i wonder if they left in the part at the end"

00:21 techrights_guest|11; ubuntu gui was so bad. i moved on from that in 2010.

00:21 DaemonFC; Plagiarism followed by DARVO attacks coupled to vague legal threats.

00:21 matey; big humanity is watching you

00:21 AdmFubar; Spring has sprung! ... the grass has rizz, I wonder where the birdies is?!... they're in the trees you silly nut! and if you don't like my poem you can kiss my butt!

00:21 techrights_guest|11; lol

00:21 matey; fo rizzle

00:22 DaemonFC; https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/an-elite-ukrainian-drone-unit-exploits-the-cover-of-night-to-destroy-russian-tanks-and-trucks-while-their-soldiers-sleep-report-says/ar-AAViepy?li=BBorjTa

00:22 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-MSN

00:22 DaemonFC; "Wakey wakey!"

00:23 DaemonFC; I'd love to be on one of those drone teams. I'd be having too much fun killing Russians while they sleep.

00:23 DaemonFC; IF they notice, it's because it's already too late to run, which just makes it even more fantastic.

00:23 techrights_guest|11; alright im out, got a hot dog linux iso to install thanks for the tips on the book ill get that on order, and thanks for the articles links on the vehicle mayhem surveillance.

00:24 matey; o/

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00:24 DaemonFC; Pootie Poot left his soldiers wide open to drone attacks.

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00:24 matey; goddamnit, did i just sell something from the fsf store

00:24 DaemonFC; He sent them in without night vision goggles or infrared and so they can't really do much at night.

00:25 DaemonFC; Not only that, but they're so stupid that in a country where most of the power is out, they're the only ones running light.

00:25 DaemonFC; I'm certain that helps.

00:25 matey; you can read it online for freeeee

00:25 matey; i did, i only bought it in paper to support the f$f

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00:51 AdmFubar; https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2022/03/18/conti-initial-access/

00:51 TR Bot; The TTPs of Conti's initial access broker - Help Net Security

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1 AM, March 21

01:02 schestowitz-TR; Windows

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01:10 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162784

01:10 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines

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01:14 TR News; the ax shell proposal gemini://xoc3.io/blog/2022-03-20

01:15 TR News; How to Get Into Self Hosting gemini://moddedbear.xyz/logs/2022-03-20-how-to-get-into-self-hosting.gmi

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01:17 TR News; "Digging deeper, I think I'm afraid of conflict. I don't know why exactly, since I seem to act the same in conversations with friends and strangers alike. I usually "let it go" and stay silent when confronted with people passionately expressing contrary opinions." gemini://josipantolis.from.hr/gemlog/absolute-candor.gmi

01:18 TR News; "I don't know if I ever mentioned the fact that I'm Russian. Even though I was not (yet) touched by the unfolding events (other than economically), it still feels like the life was put on halt. Which is why this capsule was silent." gemini://tilde.team/~aprilnightk/gemlog/2022/03/20-off-my-chest.gmi

01:19 TR News; Apple: "Unsurprisingly, I was disappointed in the upgrade." gemini://shit.cx/tech/devenv/2022-03-20-adjusting-for-monterey-spaces-to-fullscreen-apps/

01:20 TR News; Planet of the Apes gopher://gopher.black:70/1/phlog/20220320-planet-of-the-apes we watched two parts in the cinemas.

01:21 schestowitz; MinceR: gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D536.jpg

01:22 MinceR; :>

01:23 schestowitz-TR; :3 even

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01:25 TR News; "Josh and Kurt talk about Microsoft accidentally letting us find out about ads in file explorer." https://opensourcesecurity.io/2022/03/20/episode-315-who-even-makes-all-these-terrible-decisions/

01:25 TR Bot; Episode 315 Who even makes all these terrible decisions? Open Source Security

01:27 TR News; Linux Kernel 5.17 Officially Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162724#comment-33123

01:27 TR Bot; The first Asahi Linux Alpha Release is here! | Tux Machines

01:28 TR News; Windows is dying; the competition lowered its market value. https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/17/file_explorer_windows_ads/

01:28 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/17/file_explorer_windows_ads/

01:28 TR Bot; Ads in File Explorer 'experimental' says Microsoft The Register

01:33 TR News; 15 Commonly Used Network Ports Explained Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162785

01:33 TR Bot; 15 Commonly Used Network Ports Explained | Tux Machines

01:33 TR News; "On behalf of the Rakudo development team, Im very happy to announce the March 2022 release of Rakudo #154. Rakudo is an implementation of the Raku1 language." https://rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-release-2022.03

01:33 Alternative link; Cloudflare: rakudo.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-release-2022.03

01:33 TR Bot; Rakudo compiler, Release #154 (2022.03) - Rakudo Compiler for Raku Programming Language

01:34 TR News; Another little Gemini milestone is crossed. The planet we have set up is increasingly being accessed. http://techrights.org/2022/03/20/2260-gemini-capsules-over-1800-active-ones/

01:34 TR Bot; 2,260 Gemini Capsules, Over 1,800 Active Ones | Techrights

01:36 TR News; Steep increase in total number of Gemini capsules gemini://botond.online/en/stats/

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01:53 DaemonFC; https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/tivbgn/a_stop_sign_in_my_town_is_so_old_its_become_a/

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01:53 TR Bot; A stop sign in my town is so old it's become a death metal band logo : mildlyinteresting

2 AM, March 21

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02:37 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social and #techpol IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-200322.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-200322.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-200322.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-200322.txt

02:37 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell-social and #techpol @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, March 20, 2022

02:38 TR News; Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-200322.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-200322.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techrights-200322.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-200322.txt

02:38 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, March 20, 2022

02:39 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-200322.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-200322.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-200322.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-200322.txt

02:39 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, March 20, 2022

02:40 TR News; Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-200322.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-200322.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techbytes-200322.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-200322.txt

02:40 TR Bot; IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, March 20, 2022

02:42 TR News; Yesterday's bulletin is now ready! : http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-03-20.txt | gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-03-20.txt (tentative address, to work an hour from now)

3 AM, March 21

03:03 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 36.31 k/sec., IPFS upstream 25.48 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.80

03:10 DaemonFC; https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/g6yczx/signed_up_for_walmart_delivery_serviceno_tipping/

03:10 TR Bot; Signed up for Walmart Delivery service...no tipping allowed. Found out later that it wasnt Walmarts delivery system delivering groceries, It was you guys. Almost didnt realize to tip, but then did and immediately canceled service after. : doordash_drivers

03:10 DaemonFC; schestowitz, Apparently, Walmart is giving Walmart+ to all their employees but the Walmart+ drivers are Grubhub, DoorDash, and Uber, and make about $4 per order.

03:11 DaemonFC; And so a lot of people complain that nobody is picking up their order, and a lot of the people who have delivered one, it's like stories about tons of heavy stuff and 50 pound bags of dog food they had to lug down a hill.

03:11 DaemonFC; And then they got paid $4 by Walmart and the guy didn't even leave a tip.

03:13 DaemonFC; I wonder if Mr. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOLAG would like Walmart for this.

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03:14 DaemonFC; I don't ever see any benefit of using this other than if I don't need $35 worth of stuff that day from their grocery pickup, it won't charge me a $5.99 convenience fee.

03:16 DaemonFC; I'm certainly not going to have someone drive all the way to my house every day to deliver just stuff for that night's dinner and then not tip them. That's a dick move. But it seems most drivers don't even accept these orders and then they stay there and get "re-shopped" by the store (put back on the shelf while the customer gets a refund because nobody wanted to take the order for $4.

03:16 DaemonFC; https://www.ridesharingdriver.com/doordash-walmart/

03:16 Alternative link; Cloudflare: ridesharingdriver.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.ridesharingdriver.com/doordash-walmart/

03:16 TR Bot; Here's Why Some DoorDash Drivers Hate Walmart Orders - Ridesharing Driver

03:16 DaemonFC; Walmart orders are making me lose money

03:16 DaemonFC; I decline all Walmart orders

03:16 DaemonFC; 200 items up to a 3rd story apartment and no tip

03:16 DaemonFC; Just remember, Somewhere in the world right now.someone is on a $3 Walmart order

03:16 DaemonFC; schestowitz, And it's DoorDash that does this.

03:18 DaemonFC; https://www.ridesharingdriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/walmart-doordash-low-pay.png

03:18 Alternative link; Cloudflare: ridesharingdriver.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.ridesharingdriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/walmart-doordash-low-pay.png

03:19 DaemonFC; "Walmart will not release orders to drivers with young children in the car who cannot be left unattended."

03:19 DaemonFC; Acknowledgment that gig workers can't afford childcare and do, in fact, leave them in the back of a running car in Chicago.

03:20 DaemonFC; You hear all the time how people in Waukegan get jacked and their kids were in the car. Or they left their kid in the car to run into Dollar General and a *cough* person gets in the car and points a gun at the kid.

03:21 DaemonFC; So these gig apps are putting people's children in danger.

03:21 DaemonFC; Walmart knows. Doesn't want sued.

03:23 DaemonFC; Probably the only time I'd use the delivery (and tip) is if I was in bed with the flu or something and just could NOT get out. Otherwise, I'm at Walmart every day anyway.

03:23 IPFS; Gemini requests since start of month: 326084 total Total number of pages in capsule: 39803 Active: active (running) since Mon 2022-02-07 16:50:38 GMT; 1 months 11 days ago

03:24 IPFS; IPFS local node stats (bandwidth since last reset) calculated. TotalIn: 108 GB TotalOut: 56 GB

03:25 IPFS; New daily bulletin is now being generated and assembled.

03:27 AdmFubar; https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/more-conti-ransomware-source-code-leaked-on-twitter-out-of-revenge/

03:27 Alternative link; Cloudflare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/more-conti-ransomware-source-code-leaked-on-twitter-out-of-revenge/

03:27 TR Bot; More Conti ransomware source code leaked on Twitter out of revenge

03:28 DaemonFC; I think Walmart giving + to their workers is a sign of something happening on the back end.

03:28 DaemonFC; DoorDash drivers hate it, Walmart employees hate it, customers hate it.

03:29 DaemonFC; It seems Walmart reasons that if it can create 1.4 million new customers out of their own employees, there will be more orders on a typical route and it may become easier for drivers to justify a route if they're not driving across town for $5-6.

03:35 IPFS; QmZkDEgYNnUUQtaGwFdmteyZ5W9URPTE1mBXTnYquZ1fsa

03:35 IPFS; New daily bulletin has just been added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with the CID above.

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03:48 DaemonFC; schestowitz, https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/03/21/to-go-along-with-hideous-levels-of-inflation-walmart-gives-walmart-to-employees-instead-of-a-cost-of-living-adjustment/

03:48 TR Bot; To go along with hideous levels of inflation, Walmart gives Walmart+ to employees instead of a cost of living adjustment. BaronHK's Rants

03:48 DaemonFC; "Ive complained about these apps before, and how its dangerous for these gig workers from DoorDash to have their kids in the car.

03:48 DaemonFC; Very recently, in the city I live in, a guy got into a running car and pointed a loaded handgun at a 16 year old in the back set. A week before that, a guy stole a running vehicle and then ditched it a few miles later with some toddlers in it.

03:48 DaemonFC; And you know how these app companies are. Were just a facilitator! You cant sue us!.

03:48 DaemonFC; This is what comes out of San Francisco, folks. The most illiberal non-progressive system imaginable.

03:48 DaemonFC; A return to plantations working slaves for subsistence living standards."

03:52 DaemonFC; We're at the point where having a minimum wage job is almost a luxury thanks to people like Mr. GOOOOOOOOOOOLAG ordering his cold, cold, pizza from disgruntled slaves making like $1 above gasoline expenses.

03:52 DaemonFC; "I gave them a $5 tip!" Yeah, asshole, and gas is also like $7 a gallon in San Francisco and you live in a $780,000 house.

03:53 DaemonFC; So even if that's true, you could obviously do better. If that's a priority.

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03:54 DaemonFC; DoorDash needs to be pointed to the nearest dick to suck.

03:55 DaemonFC; I mean, I thought leaving food there for an hour and a half to go cold until they offered to pay someone enough to pick it up was bad.

03:55 DaemonFC; But it turns out many people don't get their Walmart grocery order at all.

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4 AM, March 21

04:00 mjg59_; DaemonFC: Which is why I pay a bunch more than that.

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04:02 DaemonFC; So you agree this system is illiberal, non-progressive, and slavery?

04:02 DaemonFC; And that it sucks.

04:02 mjg59_; I do! The gig economy is massively exploitative

04:03 DaemonFC; So why use it?

04:03 mjg59_; I only do so if the restaurant I'm ordering from offers it as the only delivery service

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04:03 DaemonFC; I certainly don't plan to, except the gas discount and the no minimum order for "pickup" which is their employees making at least $17.50 an hour and with employment rights.

04:03 mjg59_; And if I do end up using it, I pay well enough that I'm certain the driver is making a reasonable amount after costs

04:04 DaemonFC; The drivers don't agree that orders sit there for an hour and go cold unless they're not making enough to pick it up.

04:04 DaemonFC; The drivers say that it goes up 50 cents for everyone that opens it up and closes it again.

04:04 DaemonFC; Until it's worth enough for SOMEONE to go get it.

04:05 mjg59_; The only time I've had a cold delivery was when the driver picked it up immediately and then drove to the opposite side of the city

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04:05 DaemonFC; So if your order is sitting there for over an hour, it means that probably 10-15 drivers have opened and closed it and DoorDash eventually pays them enough to get rid of it, even without a decent tip.

04:06 DaemonFC; If your McDonalds sits there for over 15 minutes, it's not very palatable anymore.

04:06 mjg59_; And also apparently left it upside down

04:06 DaemonFC; The ice melts, the cheeseburger bun gets crunchy and stale, the cheese reverts to a plastic-like texture, the fries turn into packing peanuts.

04:06 DaemonFC; But they use DoorDash.

04:06 DaemonFC; I guess standards aren't high.

04:07 DaemonFC; "<mjg59_> And also apparently left it upside down"

04:08 DaemonFC; That seems like you offended him somehow.

04:08 DaemonFC; Why else would you go through the ADDED effort of turning the pizza upside down?

04:08 DaemonFC; HOW could you accidentally turn the pizza upside down?

04:09 mjg59_; I genuinely don't know!

04:09 mjg59_; But if I habitually tipped shittily you'd expect it to have happened more than once?

04:09 DaemonFC; I don't know how those apps work too well.

04:09 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@sy7ss5msyeqgk.irc) has joined #techrights

04:09 DaemonFC; I think I used them like maybe twice.

04:09 DaemonFC; No, three times.

04:10 matey; /me presumes that mjg59_s habits regarding food delivery are reasonable and that grilling him over them are a waste of time, unless its just for fun

04:10 DaemonFC; All were when restaurants were offering to waive the delivery fee during like 2020 I think.

04:10 DaemonFC; Once from Little Caesars, once from Wendy's, and once from Popeye's.

04:11 matey; i dont use food delivery services unless theyre tied directly and exclusively to the restaurant (no doordash etc)

04:11 DaemonFC; I tipped well all three times, and the only bad delivery I got was from Popeye's where they added a fee for dipping sauces after they said they came with the meal at no extra charge. $1.50 per sauce. I was not thrilled about that. So they refunded it. Nuisance.

04:11 mjg59_; matey: The only time I'll use them is if the restaurant explicitly links to them as their preferred delivery partner

04:11 DaemonFC; And the order was kind of cold, but the lady that pulled up had a clunker and her two young children were in the back seat.

04:12 DaemonFC; So I decided to just let it go and give her a good rating anyway.

04:12 matey; i presume you avoid them as a rule

04:12 matey; if everyone did that im sure they would suffer and possibly go out of business

04:12 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I'd much rather give the money to the restaurant and have them have properly paid delivery people

04:12 matey; bonus points presumably to anyone who never uses them, even if its self-serving

04:12 matey; Yeah I'd much rather give the money to the restaurant <- exactly

04:12 DaemonFC; Yes, I only order pizza delivery now if it's going to be from a place with their own delivery staff.

04:13 DaemonFC; I ask when I call to order it if they're using a delivery company or their own employees.

04:13 DaemonFC; I just sort of figured at first that they had partnered with GrubHub to pay delivery workers a fair wage and just didn't want them on their own payroll.

04:14 matey; people underestimate the power of a partial boycott, where if adoption was widespread enough, the business would suffer existential losses

04:14 DaemonFC; But then I figured out that it's shitty piece work that barely covers gas, and I felt really bad and removed it from my phone.

04:14 matey; in other words if everyone barely used amazon, they would fall over

04:14 matey; it wouldnt matter whether they never did (though that would be great too)

04:14 DaemonFC; Well, the whole scam of "apps" is to get around the New Deal.

04:15 DaemonFC; Because half the Social Security and Medicare tax is paid by the employer.

04:15 matey; by "partial" of course i mean substantial but not complete

04:15 DaemonFC; And so when you are a contractor, you pay both halves instead of just the employee share.

04:15 DaemonFC; So not only do these things barely cover gas, you get fucked extra hard by the IRS at the end of the year.

04:15 matey; if people used uber only in emergencies for example, that would be incredibly helpful

04:15 DaemonFC; And you have to make estimated tax payments quarterly.

04:15 matey; if it was widespread enough

04:15 DaemonFC; Which is WAY more than a gig economy bullshit app job is worth.

04:16 DaemonFC; Huge headache. Very rapacious.

04:16 matey; the whole thing would just fall apart

04:16 DaemonFC; The whole thing IS falling apart.

04:16 mjg59_; DaemonFC: Anyway, are we good on the accusations that I deliberately fuck over delivery people by tipping badly?

04:16 DaemonFC; The orders are being canceled for Walmart+ because they pay even worse than normal DoorDash.

04:17 DaemonFC; I just wasn't sure how else that it could go down like that.

04:17 matey; the one drawback is partial boycotts of incredibly addictive things, like twitter :) which apparently is incredibly addictive

04:17 mjg59_; DaemonFC: So you decided to just make something up?

04:17 DaemonFC; In a market economy, you typically only get service once the cost to provide that service is fair, or at least when they can't do better.

04:17 DaemonFC; But expecting people to work for less than the price of gas is unreasonable.

04:17 matey; because then soon enough instead of a partial boycott its just a habit

04:18 mjg59_; DaemonFC: I agree, which is why I don't expect that and ensure that I pay well enough for them to be fine

04:18 matey; techrights ran a series on "digital veganism" a few months ago that talked about this sort of thing

04:19 *gooseheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

04:19 matey; dr andy farnell

04:19 DaemonFC; Veganism makes absolutely no sense to me.

04:19 matey; doordash overlaps a bit with this because these things are usually app-based

04:19 DaemonFC; The first thing a lot of vegan recipes do is go back and try to find stand ins for all the stuff they can't have.

04:20 DaemonFC; <matey> doordash overlaps a bit with this because these things are usually app-based

04:20 matey; i hope doordash can also be used over the phone, but the drivers at least need a phone to take a picture or something

04:20 DaemonFC; Sometimes the apps are good.

04:20 matey; regular phone ^

04:20 DaemonFC; I took a picture of a "failure to yield" ticket and put it in an app.

04:20 DaemonFC; It connected me to an attorney that beat it at less than what most of them charged.

04:21 DaemonFC; When you just dial them up out of the phone book you don't know if they beat half the tickets or none of them or 90% of them.

04:21 DaemonFC; The whole point of the state issuing tickets is a backdoor tax.

04:22 DaemonFC; The cops knew that I didn't run the light. They didn't see it, but they knew that it was not only untrue, but impossible to prove even if it did happen because they weren't there and the only other witness had every reason to lie.

04:23 DaemonFC; (He had no license, no insurance, and his brother was absconding from parole in another state. But they let him go.)

04:23 DaemonFC; Then they stuck the ticket in my hand.

04:23 DaemonFC; They know most people have no time to fight this and don't realize what it will do to their insurance if they don't and go "Eh, $146 isn't the end of the world!". and mail it in.

04:24 DaemonFC; But an app helped me with that.

04:25 matey; Arnold Schwarzenegger says he's been 80% vegan the past 5 <- that is not what that means

04:25 DaemonFC; But attorneys don't do much. He was in there with several other clients one right after the other having the judge rapid fire them all so that the court could get to the ones that were just there to plea out.

04:25 DaemonFC; And if you boil it down to an hourly rate, assuming 15 minutes per case, he was making almost $850 an hour.

04:26 DaemonFC; Apps mostly just exist to exploit people somehow.

04:26 matey; thats like being 80% not a murderer because you havent killed anyone in a while

04:26 mjg59_; (Just going to point out that, once again, DaemonFC has made an accusation against me, failed to back it up, and then just started talking about something else rather than admit it was bullshit)

04:26 DaemonFC; They stuff them like a Thanksgiving turkey with spyware and crapware and advertisements.

04:26 matey; although being vegan doesnt require a clean past record

04:26 DaemonFC; Then they steal from people who can't get a regular job for whatever reason.

04:26 DaemonFC; An ex of mine has an open warrant for domestic battery.

04:27 DaemonFC; He does DoorDash because they don't look for open warrants.

04:27 matey; in california of course, anything is possible. you can just bullshit your way to any truth you can imagine

04:27 DaemonFC; So that may be who brings you your food.

04:28 DaemonFC; If the order is going to pay them well, it goes to the front of the line.

04:28 DaemonFC; That is apparently how the app works, and that seems so logical that I have no reason to be skeptical of drivers who say that's what they do.

04:29 DaemonFC; We live in a country of people who want a lot and don't want to pay for it.

04:29 DaemonFC; And that's why things are so screwed up.

04:30 mjg59_; It's a leap from "Drivers don't want to pick up stuff if it pays poorly" to "Matthew's pizza was picked up by someone who then drove to the other side of the city and back before deliverying it, so he must have tipped badly"

04:31 mjg59_; There are other reasons that could have happened!

04:31 matey; mjg59_ i imagine some people think your fun to simply harass over nothing. id prefer they find something legitimate to bother you about, but they probably think "well, its matt. he deserves it anyway"

04:32 matey; my issue with that thinking is that its more useful to bother you over something meaningful, if they can think of anything

04:32 DaemonFC; Well, I think I've said everything about uEFI.

04:33 DaemonFC; Pretty much every "OMG this fucking crap again!" out of me about my computer is uEFI-related.

04:33 mjg59_; Yeah plenty of legitimate space to disagree with me on various uefi topics

04:33 DaemonFC; Often when I've bought a new one and it's doing something else wrong.

04:33 matey; i can think of a handful of things

04:33 DaemonFC; It's not just rotten vendors anymore not caring if it's absolute garbage because Windows runs.

04:34 matey; but all of them are older topics and that takes some of the fun out of it

04:34 mjg59_; Anyway I've looked into this Ryzen laptop a bunch and I'm pretty convinced that it's possible for the firmware to entirely shut down Pluton in a way that the OS can never re-enable

04:34 DaemonFC; They actively go and find more things to deliberately fuck up.

04:34 DaemonFC; So that ONLY Windows runs.

04:34 mjg59_; Which is good!

04:34 DaemonFC; And that makes it worse than the BIOS.

04:34 matey; the most recent thing is your lawsuit against roy but i think thats funny

04:34 matey; and since no one is willing to discuss it there goes the fun about that topic as well

04:34 DaemonFC; <mjg59_> Anyway I've looked into this Ryzen laptop a bunch and I'm pretty convinced that it's possible for the firmware to entirely shut down Pluton in a way that the OS can never re-enable

04:35 DaemonFC; It will be better if OEMs shut down Pluton in a way that NOTHING can ever enable it again.

04:35 DaemonFC; Even the user.

04:35 matey; since picking on you over imaginary faults like how you order food is pointless, id rather pick on someone who is actively and known to be causing problems for the free software world

04:35 DaemonFC; I think Dell said they were going to do that.

04:35 matey; but if someone wants to bother you over an old topic, that could still be useful if they have anything good

04:35 mjg59_; DaemonFC: This is based on fusing, so it is actually possible to do in a way that nobody can re-enable it

04:35 DaemonFC; If it completely fails to gain traction because Microsoft can't even get the user convinced it's important enough to turn on, it will fail.

04:36 DaemonFC; Then it will just be one more blip on their road of sabotage.

04:36 DaemonFC; <mjg59_> DaemonFC: This is based on fusing, so it is actually possible to do in a way that nobody can re-enable it

04:36 DaemonFC; Good. Fuck em.

04:36 matey; meanwhile, and this irks me a bit, people are going soft on bad actors who are ACTIVE

04:37 mjg59_; Unlike motherboard TPMs, which can't be permanently disabled

04:37 DaemonFC; Whenever Microsoft says "security" I use those Dr. Evil quote fingers.

04:37 DaemonFC; Like "laser".

04:37 mjg59_; Pluton is actually better in that respect!

04:37 matey; i know taking potshots at matt is fun, i get it, but if youre just a punching bag theyre only relieving stress, not fighting anything

04:37 matey; ah well, there you go

04:37 matey; they can take potshots at you over pluton

04:37 DaemonFC; <mjg59_> Unlike motherboard TPMs, which can't be permanently disabled

04:37 DaemonFC; I'm not sure why you would.

04:37 matey; if it was a topic i was more familiar with i might do so

04:38 DaemonFC; The worst thing that happens with a motherboard TPM is that nothing uses it for anything.

04:38 DaemonFC; And it's just kind of....there.

04:38 matey; all i know about it is tpm -> tpm is tpm -> drm for the cpu -> drm is bad -> matt loves stuff like this

04:38 mjg59_; matey: TPMs aren't really useful for DRM

04:38 matey; which is a good reason to bother you about it, but id have to know more than just "drm bad" to really have a go

04:38 matey; even if (and this is my position) "drm bad"

04:38 DaemonFC; Bitlocker uses the TPM, and Bitlocker also caused irrecoverable data loss for me three times on the same laptop.

04:39 mjg59_; If they were used in a completely different way they could potentially be

04:39 DaemonFC; Including one where I had to reinstall Windows because of a BIOS upgrade from Lenovo.

04:39 matey; yeah if nukes can be used to stop incoming asteroids im totally in favour

04:39 matey; im not sure they can do that, but if they can its a good reason to keep a few around

04:39 mjg59_; But the way all PCs currently use TPMs means that TPMs can't be meaningfully used to enforce DRM

04:39 DaemonFC; I used Windows briefly on this thing until Debian had a new release out with good enough drivers to get it installed, and then go for a backport kernel.

04:40 DaemonFC; It was absolute hell.

04:40 DaemonFC; No improvement at all since I last checked in on it several years before that.

04:41 DaemonFC; The only reason anyone would use Windows anymore is because Microsoft makes it a colossal pain in the ass that takes a lot of work to get rid of.

04:41 mjg59_; matey: TPMs have no ability to look at the running system - all they know about is what they're told

04:41 DaemonFC; And it's not easy to document that process so that users know what to do.

04:41 mjg59_; matey: So during boot, each component in the boot chain passes a cryptographic hash of the next component in the boot chain to the TPM, and the TPM keeps a record of all of those

04:41 matey; mostly they stop less technical users from having control of their hardware

04:41 DaemonFC; When it was a PC BIOS you told people "Here's how you make a Live CD. Restart the computer with the LiveCD in it and it should boot into your Ubuntu CD.".

04:42 matey; and by default they give more to a company i consider bullshit

04:42 matey; thats in practice

04:42 DaemonFC; Now it's like this 30 step process that changes on every computer.

04:42 mjg59_; matey: And you can tell the TPM to store a secret and only give it back to you if those values are the same

04:42 matey; And you can tell the TPM to store a secret <- i have no use for this

04:42 mjg59_; matey: But there's no record of what "good" values are, so there's no way for anyone (in the general case) to know whether the hashes are good or not

04:42 DaemonFC; I'm not aware of any Free Software I should want to use that even cares if you have a TPM.

04:43 DaemonFC; Pile-o-FIPS-crap

04:43 matey; i presume the goal is to make it a standard feature

04:43 mjg59_; matey: So you can, for example, use the TPM to store your disk encryption key and if anyone modifies your boot sequence the TPM will refuse to give it back to you

04:43 matey; i have no use for that

04:43 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@sibgmb3jcuva4.irc) has joined #techrights

04:43 *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

04:43 DaemonFC; <mjg59_> matey: So you can, for example, use the TPM to store your disk encryption key and if anyone modifies your boot sequence the TPM will refuse to give it back to you

04:43 mjg59_; Not everyone does! But it's a way to provide disk encryption to people without them having to type in a password

04:43 matey; if it was only on 50% of computers i dont think it would bother me

04:43 DaemonFC; Like the Lenovo BIOS update that took out Windows due to Bitlocker.

04:44 matey; but i think the goal is to have it standard, and its more likely to be abused than used

04:44 matey; thats why i dont like it

04:44 DaemonFC; A BIOS update should never make it impossible to unlock an encrypted disk again.

04:44 mjg59_; It's already standard

04:44 matey; therein lies the problem

04:44 mjg59_; All Windows-logo machines since 2014 have shipped with a TPM

04:44 matey; its more likely to be abused than used

04:44 mjg59_; World hasn't ended

04:44 mjg59_; Linux still boots on all of them

04:44 matey; World hasn't ended <- this non-argument doesnt fly when you say other injustices still exist

04:44 mjg59_; I mean, here's the important thing:

04:45 DaemonFC; mjg59_, You'll notice that Lenovo's instructions for installing Ubuntu say disable Secure Boot.

04:45 mjg59_; TPMs can't stop you booting things

04:45 matey; sure, human trafficking is rampant in thailand, world hasnt ended

04:45 mjg59_; TPMs are passive components - they only do something if they're asked to

04:45 matey; TPMs can't stop you booting things <- in practice i believe they give extra control to microsoft by default

04:45 mjg59_; Nope

04:45 matey; no because you can just reset the chip?

04:46 matey; or no because you can just do a deal with them and get a key for a bootloader

04:46 mjg59_; TPMs aren't involved in Secure Boot

04:46 matey; ahh ok so im conflating tpm with secure boot

04:46 matey; and i thought they were related

04:46 mjg59_; Yeah a lot of stuff confuses them

04:46 matey; i presume you know what problem rms has with tpm

04:46 mjg59_; Not your fault

04:46 mjg59_; I spent a bunch of time talking to rms about TPMs

04:47 matey; and whats his problem with it

04:47 mjg59_; He ended up agreeing they could be used in ways that were compatible with free software

04:47 matey; ah

04:47 matey; so

04:47 matey; do you figure the main issue people have with it is thinking its got something to do with secure boot?

04:47 mjg59_; For instance, you can have your laptop use the TPM to prove to another device (such as a phone) that your laptop hasn't had its firmware or software tampered with

04:48 mjg59_; And you can check that before typing your password in

04:48 mjg59_; Which doesn't matter to most people, but would be extremely useful to activists in some places

04:48 DaemonFC; I haven't really gone through everything in my firmware setup.

04:49 DaemonFC; There was something in there about being able to disable Intel Platform Trust Technology.

04:49 DaemonFC; Which sounds like maybe a good idea.

04:49 DaemonFC; Usually things named like this are bullshit.

04:49 mjg59_; PTT is Intel's "TPM but running on the Management Engine" technology

04:49 mjg59_; So yeah if you don't like TPMs or ME disable it

04:49 matey; disabling me is a lot of trouble for most people

04:50 mjg59_; matey: When TPMs were introduced in the 2000s a lot of people *did* want to use them in user-hostile ways

04:50 matey; that would explain the aversion to them

04:50 mjg59_; There was a bunch of stuff about banks making sure that you were using a "trusted" system before letting you log in

04:50 mjg59_; But all of that turned out to be basically impossible in the real world

04:50 matey; interesting

04:50 mjg59_; So they all gave up

04:51 matey; and then pluton is... just more tpm?

04:51 mjg59_; At the moment

04:51 mjg59_; One of the problems with TPMs is that the communication between the CPU and the TPM is hard to secure

04:51 mjg59_; So if someone can take your machine apart, they can fool the TPM

04:51 matey; obviously the problem with pluton is simple

04:51 matey; people dont want microsoft in their firmware

04:52 matey; which is one reason ill never buy a pi

04:52 matey; its not even the firmware itself-- they just dont want microsoft in their firmware, even if microsoft cant touch it.

04:52 matey; i dont deny being 100% averse to microsoft

04:52 matey; i dont want to give them the marketshare.

04:52 mjg59_; That's understandable

04:53 matey; if i buy a pi, they get SOMETHING out of it

04:53 matey; this of course is impossible to avoid completely. they get something out of android. they get something out of github.

04:53 matey; they get something out of everything they touch-- and there arent many things they dont.

04:53 matey; i would very much like to see microsoft go the way of nazi germany

04:54 matey; preferably with gates offing himself in a bunker.

04:54 mjg59_; Putting the TPM in the CPU does solve a security problem

04:54 matey; yeah, if its not the cpu you can do attacks on it over... something

04:54 mjg59_; And Microsoft have a legitimate reason to want to solve that security problem

04:54 matey; i not a hardware guy, but its not completely alien to me

04:55 mjg59_; But given Microsoft's track record, it's fair to not trust that that's all that's going on

04:55 matey; And Microsoft have a legitimate reason <- im going to say they might have a TECHNICALLY legitimate reason

04:55 matey; But given Microsoft's track record <- so i dont plan to buy anything with pluton in it, regardless of its technical features

04:55 matey; im happy to let intel take a bath

04:55 mjg59_; Yeah, it's up to Microsoft to fix their track record there

04:55 matey; i dont think its fixable.

04:55 matey; theyve been lying and scheming for decades

04:55 matey; and fucked us all over mightily

04:56 matey; though some people dont mind

04:56 mjg59_; I'll continue investigating what Pluton is capable of doing at the moment, but people should definitely make their own decisions

04:56 matey; of course people seem to forgive them enough to use github

04:56 *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Leaving)

04:56 matey; I'll continue investigating what Pluton is capable of doing <- i presume that people will do security research

04:57 matey; lets say for the sake of argument, that leah wanted to do research on pluton

04:57 mjg59_; I expect so! No x86 hardware that has Pluton enabled seems to have shipped yet

04:57 matey; that wouldnt bother me. researchers are SUPPOSED to do research

04:57 mjg59_; The existing Ryzen 6000 series laptops have it disabled

04:57 matey; disabled in a way that can be enabled later, or with fuses?

04:57 mjg59_; Looks like fuses

04:57 matey; /me nods

04:57 mjg59_; Can't prove it without basically destroying this laptop, and that'd be a lot of money that could be used for better purposes

04:58 matey; yeah i was content with an educated guess on that

04:58 mjg59_; But Microsoft definitely can't enable it, they'd need the laptop manufacturer to cooperate

04:58 mjg59_; That's the worse case scenario

04:59 mjg59_; At this point I'll probably wait for the Thinkpads with it to ship and check out one of those

04:59 matey; being cynical, i would expect it to be something that could be enabled through me or whatever they choose to call it next

04:59 mjg59_; If it's not fused off then the situation's more open

04:59 matey; but being cynical doesnt necessarily make it so

04:59 mjg59_; matey: Intel's not shipping Pluton in this generation, so hard to figure out what's happening there

04:59 leah; i have been summoned

5 AM, March 21

05:00 matey; just aruging that its reasonable for you to do research, leah

05:00 mjg59_; AMD do manage Pluton through the PSP, which is ~roughly equivalent to the ME

05:00 matey; i can say "lea.h" to avoid summoning you if it pleases you

05:00 leah; summarize the current discussion in 20 words or less

05:00 mjg59_; But PSP firmware is much smaller than ME, and easier to analyse

05:00 matey; we are talking about the merits of pluton

05:00 leah; what is pluton

05:00 leah; oh is that that amd thing

05:01 matey; i was saying that im against it because its microsoft, but im still not against you researching it because its hardware and i expect you to do research

05:01 mjg59_; leah: Microsoft's security chip that CPU vendors are incorporating, and which runs firmware that exposes TPM-compatible functionality

05:01 leah; so

05:01 leah; superfluous

05:01 leah; install openbsd

05:01 matey; check.

05:02 leah; matey: you realize this conversation could go nuclear right?

05:02 matey; leah: i believe you, but how?

05:02 leah; not in the mood to fight mjg59_'s bullshit today

05:02 mjg59_; The Pluton firmware doesn't seem to be encrypted

05:02 matey; leah: im sorry, i forget that you dislike each other

05:02 mjg59_; So should be easy for people to figure out what it can do

05:02 mjg59_; matey: Oh, I have no problem with leah. I understand her dislike for me.

05:03 leah; matey: this is the same bloke who helped normalize uefi secureboot

05:03 leah; now trying to normalize yet another attack on our freedom

05:03 matey; yeah im against secureboot

05:03 mjg59_; Legitimate topic to disagree with me over

05:03 leah; pluton is bad

05:03 leah; tpm is bad

05:03 matey; leah: im against pluton because its microsoft

05:03 matey; leah: please tell me why tpm is bad, so i can repeat it to everyone who is neutral on it

05:03 matey; this is not a troll

05:03 leah; matey: the same bloke who repeatedly derided libreboot from day one, also

05:04 matey; leah: im not a fan of matt and he knows this

05:04 matey; just because im using a civil tone and willing to speak to him

05:04 leah; ok, just know: mjg59_ arrives in bad faith, always. he's a hand of the industry. the one that takes away our industry

05:04 leah; he's a paid troll, basically

05:04 leah; i've seen his tweets about pluton

05:05 matey; leah: if you ever choose to explain why tpm is bad (this isnt a challenge-- your opinion means more to me on this topic than the opinion of most people, and one of my associates is also anti-pluton-- im against it because of the vendor) id be interested in reading it

05:05 matey; maybe a blurb on your website.

05:05 matey; im not demanding anything.

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05:06 leah; though

05:06 mjg59_; leah: Sorry, if I've given the impression that I have issues with libreboot then I apologise - I think 100% free firmware is an entirely worthwhile goal

05:06 leah; the concept of what pluton/tpm/me/secureboot etc all do is very good, if it were user-controlled

05:06 leah; it is not user-controlled

05:06 leah; it is vendor-controlled

05:06 mjg59_; And libreboot is obviously the closest thing to that on vaguely modern x86 that's possible

05:06 matey; thats the threat as i see it

05:06 matey; its vendor-controlled

05:06 mjg59_; leah: How are TPMs vendor-controlled?

05:07 leah; mjg59_: unless i'm mistaken? i'm assuming pluton isn't user-controlled and is chock full of blobs

05:07 matey; but when you try to say that, people like mjg (not just him) say that... ok we are already seeing it in realtime, i dont even have to explain

05:07 leah; tpm isn't even a good security mitigation

05:07 mjg59_; leah: Pluton's firmware appears to be a blob that's uploaded at init time, so yeah, there's proprietary code there

05:07 leah; yeah, like we need more of that

05:07 matey; ^ right

05:07 leah; for real

05:08 mjg59_; I would like there to be no proprietary code there!

05:08 matey; (this is exactly why the fsf needs to take hardware more seriously, instead of just playing an incompetent babysitter role saying "dont touch that, its hot")

05:08 leah; the technology itself is worthless

05:08 leah; you can achieve complete security with code running on the x86 host cpu

05:09 leah; compiled from isc-licensed source code

05:09 matey; ^ and this is why we need more free hardware people, and more free hardware focus, so USERS have a better idea wtf theyre talking about (the fsf wont teach them)

05:09 leah; it exists on openbsd.org

05:09 mjg59_; leah: There's a bootstrapping problem - you can't prove that the system booted the secure code

05:09 leah; oh?

05:10 mjg59_; If someone modifies your firmware then you have no way to trust that the OS you're running isn't lying to you

05:10 matey; rms thinks free hardware could be a movement "in 10 years" like its not already

05:10 matey; mjg59_ this an evil maid, physical access issue is it not?

05:10 leah; mjg59_: yeah, and pluton/tmp is going to improve that, how?

05:10 leah; tpm*

05:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@pumv3cb2rfinu.irc) has joined #techrights

05:10 matey; yeah, and pluton/tmp is going to improve that, how? <- presumably with one more layer of abstraction

05:11 leah; even if the company (microsoft) pushing were benevolent (it isn't), it's added complexity

05:11 leah; more code = more bugs

05:11 leah; probably security bugs

05:11 matey; my experience with magic solutions where the key and the ciphertext is on the same device and everything is neatly packaged in a chip is "its already broken, the hack just isnt evenly distributed yet"

05:11 leah; it's just like all that bootkey bullshit

05:12 leah; (e.g. yubikey)

05:12 matey; but pluton is in the cpu, so "hack this, motherfuckers"

05:12 matey; but then they do, because the key and the ciphertext is on the same device

05:13 matey; and the only people who saw it coming were the ones who have seen 20 iterations of the same magic promise

05:13 matey; i could be wrong-- im NOT expert on this

05:13 matey; im merely cynical about it

05:13 leah; matey: the way x86 boot works is documented on coreboot.org

05:13 leah; let me find it

05:13 leah; here: https://doc.coreboot.org/getting_started/architecture.html

05:13 TR Bot; coreboot architecture coreboot 4.16-287-gd6727ba972 documentation

05:13 mjg59_; leah: If you have a measurement of what the CPU starts executing then you can create a chain of trust from there

05:13 leah; it's a simplified overview, of course

05:14 leah; back in the good old days, you had rom wired into the cpu and it just sort of booted up directly

05:14 matey; /me wants to know at which point this chain of trust doesnst start with a blobg

05:14 leah; there are layers of complexity inbetween nowadays

05:14 matey; back in the good old days, you toggled the boot code in on switches!

05:15 matey; /me was not around for those

05:15 leah; mjg59_: where on that diagram does pluton fit

05:15 leah; https://doc.coreboot.org/_images/comparision_coreboot_uefi.svg

05:15 matey; but, but, you couldnt trust the codes because someone could find the piece of paper you wrote the boot sequence on

05:15 matey; and edit it with a pencil!

05:15 mjg59_; leah: pre-CAR

05:16 leah; ok

05:16 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 30.56 k/sec., IPFS upstream 35.21 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.82

05:16 leah; and i ask

05:16 leah; why

05:17 leah; what do you think this will do to benefit average bsd/linux user

05:17 leah; i don't currently see how pluton guarantees that i'm running the same code i put in nor flash

05:18 matey; the good news is that microsoft will surely get a royalty on each chip that uses it

05:18 leah; to my knowledge, that's the cpu's job. (or it should be)

05:18 matey; i think pluton is IN the cpu

05:18 leah; mjg59_: how does pluton benefit me?

05:18 mjg59_; leah: Most people are not going to be targed by any kind of firmware attack

05:19 leah; ok, explain to me how i'll be attacked

05:19 matey; i think the logo for pluton should be ceilingcat. im sure they can license it.

05:19 mjg59_; leah: But *some* people are, and many of those people are activists

05:19 leah; let's say i'm ed snowden

05:19 leah; how do i get pwned

05:19 mjg59_; leah: So do you want those people to have to buy different hardware, making them more obvious targets?

05:19 leah; ?

05:19 matey; im in ur cpu, completely inert and causing no problem for average yoosers

05:20 mjg59_; The easiest way to allow people to make use of security features without drawing attention to themselves is to give those security features to everyone

05:20 leah; or

05:20 leah; and this may be an unpopular opinion:

05:20 leah; don't do that

05:20 leah; flash coreboot

05:20 mjg59_; Most people don't need Signal, but the more people who use Signal, the lower the risk of governments being able to just arrest everyone using Signal

05:20 leah; mjg59_: you haven't answered my question

05:20 mjg59_; leah: How does flashing Coreboot help here?

05:21 DaemonFC; mjg59_, You know, like those towns where it's the law that everyone has to have a gun.

05:21 DaemonFC; There's not much crime.

05:21 leah; you said: there's no way to guarantee i'm actually running the same code i think i am

05:21 leah; mjg59_: the question you just asked me, is the same question i have, but for pluton

05:21 leah; also, there are ways to protect the flash on your machine

05:22 leah; on intel there's ifd and prx regs

05:22 matey; reflecttions on trusting microsoft

05:22 leah; no idea about amd, haven't investigated flash protection there yet

05:22 DaemonFC; I think that towns here should do that. That you have to have a FOID card and a gun in your house.

05:23 leah; the way you check your firmware isn't tampered with, is with a raspberry pi

05:23 leah; connect a pomona clip and dump your rom

05:23 DaemonFC; Or your household owns a fine of $500 to the city each year if you can't prove you are disqualified from being able to, or too disabled to use one.

05:23 leah; if it's a good hash, you're good to go

05:23 leah; that's it

05:23 leah; and it better be coreboot that you're running

05:23 leah; otherwise

05:24 leah; who do you even care about security

05:24 DaemonFC; People tend to commit crimes when they know the odds favor them.

05:24 leah; if you can't audit the code of what's flashed, then why bother?

05:24 *psydroid8 notes that x86 hardware has been getting more expensive and the low-end affordable x86 CPUs aren't much faster than the latest ARM and RISC-V chips, so believed that x86 market share will be decreasing over the next few years leading to even higher prices for those stuck with x86

05:24 leah; pluton is microsoft's security

05:24 DaemonFC; And the odds favor them when the government makes it too much of a hassle to fend off an attacker.

05:24 leah; not yours

05:24 leah; mjg59_: btw, are you aware of libre silicon project

05:24 leah; https://libresilicon.com/

05:24 TR Bot; Libre Silicon

05:25 leah; *this* is the answer to hardware security. not layers of obscurity

05:25 DaemonFC; A security chip designed by Microsoft.

05:25 matey; holy shit, this is why the fsf is wrong about hardware

05:25 DaemonFC; We live in a parody of the world.

05:25 psydroid8; believes*

05:25 leah; mjg59_: look up the following:

05:25 DaemonFC; Nobody trusts Microsoft to keep their data secure, and if they do, they're an idiot.

05:25 leah; * jeri ellsworth homemade transistor

05:25 leah; * sam zeloof homemade silicon chip (he made a cpu in his garage)

05:25 leah; libre silicon project is based on those two

05:26 matey; didnt jeri ellsworth do a bunch of fun fpga stuff like an fpga c64?

05:26 leah; in *our* lifetime, we will have performant homemade computers

05:26 leah; fully homemade

05:26 mjg59_; leah: A libre implementation of this would be preferable, but you still need something equivalent

05:26 leah; mjg59_: yeah well, the point i'm about to make is this:

05:26 matey; in *our* lifetime, we will have performant homemade computers \o/

05:26 leah; security is when you control every aspect

05:26 matey; THATS the kind of freedom i want

05:26 mjg59_; Google's Titan implementation is something I'd prefer to Microsoft's approach here

05:26 leah; right now, we only control software

05:26 leah; but that will change in our lifetime

05:26 matey; yes

05:27 matey; leah: and the fsf wont even tell you about it, because they dont know about this stuff

05:27 mjg59_; leah: Security is when you control every aspect, and are able to prevent other people from asserting the same control

05:27 matey; this is why we need free hardware

05:27 leah; knowledge of how to do photolithography and how to actually beam gate patterns onto silicon is now in the hands of hobbyists

05:27 matey; so users can control their computing

05:27 matey; not just their compiler

05:27 leah; mjg59_: let me find you a nice video

05:27 matey; (which is increasinly controlled by ibm)

05:27 leah; mjg59_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg

05:27 TR Bot; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg

05:27 leah; watch this

05:27 TR Bot; yewtu.be | "Z2" - Upgraded Homemade Silicon Chips - Invidious

05:27 leah; and watch every other video on that guy's youtube channel

05:27 leah; he did that in highschool

05:28 matey; leah: why the f doesnt fsf talk about this?

05:28 leah; in the future, we will have fully homemade computers, performant enough to boot bsd/linux

05:28 matey; this is "users having control of their computing"

05:29 leah; matey: because they're "toejam witnesses" and stallman wants to keep his throne and refuses to adapt to changing times

05:29 leah; everything the fsf preaches is obsolete because of this and other developments in recent years

05:29 matey; matey: because they're "toejam witnesses" and stallman wants to keep his throne <- i dont want to throw rms under the bus, even if the fsf is wrong about this

05:29 matey; even if its his fault theyre wrong about this

05:29 matey; and i dont think stallman has a throne tbh

05:29 leah; mjg59_: but yeah, look at jeri ellsworth, sam zeloof and libre silicon project

05:29 matey; still, its treacherous that the fsf doesnt care about this.

05:30 matey; its a betrayal of their mission

05:30 leah; mjg59_: i'm completely ignoring arm/riscv stuff and putting all my hopes in these people

05:30 leah; sam zeloof is the leader of the freedom movement now

05:30 leah; as far as i'm concerned

05:30 matey; /me is sure that arm and riscv will keep people doing interesting work while waiting for santa to bring homemade chips

05:30 kingoffrance; DaemonFC, sov citizens propose that occasionally. ye olde common law was the "community" gets a joint fine

05:30 matey; sam zeloof is the leader of the freedom movement now <-

05:30 matey; sweet

05:31 leah; mjg59_: we currently think on the assumption that we don't control hardware. that's why shit like pluton exists

05:31 kingoffrance; DaemonFC, after the fact of course

05:31 matey; /me is fucking glad he didnt type lea.h instead

05:31 leah; mjg59_: in our lifetime, small scale fab operations will exist in all towns and villages, making computers from scratch

05:31 leah; fast enough to run a general purpose os and do all your computing

05:31 leah; with all free software

05:31 matey; /me wonders if roy will start supporting free hardware, or choose to be an fsf mouthpiece (or both?)

05:32 leah; mjg59_: in engineering class, they teach you how to make a bicycle or a clock. when you're at school

05:32 leah; mjg59_: in our lifetime, they will teach how to make CPUs at school

05:32 mjg59_; leah: I watched Jeri make a transistor with a toaster oven about 15 years ago - I'm extremely excited to see progress there

05:32 leah; mjg59_: first intel cpu has about 2000 transistors

05:32 leah; sam's chip has 1200

05:33 matey; its tantamount to fraud that free software ignores these issues

05:33 leah; in 10 years we'll have homemade CPUs that do 100k flops or more

05:33 matey; <- is not a hardware person-- has been trying to push the fsf to take hardware more seriously since before 2018

05:33 leah; i'm calling it

05:33 matey; leah: i believe you

05:33 leah; 100k flops is average performance of CPU from mid 90s

05:34 matey; leah: you need to get everyone together on this and take over free computing

05:34 leah; and i bet i get completely proven wrong and someone recreates pentium4 performance in 10 years

05:34 matey; but i hope you will be fair to rms and his legacy

05:34 leah; matey: that is exactly what i'm doing

05:34 leah; i'm delayed in the startup, because i want to get it right

05:34 matey; even if he gets this wrong-- do feel free to say why hes COMPLETELY wrong on this entire category of issues, because the fsf (and rms) are

05:35 matey; <leah> matey: that is exactly what i'm doing <- \o/

05:35 matey; good!

05:35 leah; i was going to launch something within the fsf. and told them exactly my plans. they decided not to hire me as their executive director

05:35 matey; thats what we need

05:35 leah; so now i'm starting a new org

05:35 matey; free hardware and free software

05:35 leah; i'm hoping to have it launched, some time this year

05:35 leah; i wanted it launched this month but i've been delayed

05:35 leah; Real Life (tm)

05:35 matey; dont make it monolithic like the fsf

05:35 leah; matey: yep. not gonna be another fsf

05:36 matey; make it so more can join like iss modules

05:36 leah; fsf tries to control everything

05:36 matey; and theyre not good at it anymore

05:36 leah; matey: ever watched the 1999 movie "fight club"?

05:36 matey; they dropped the ball between 2010 and 2018

05:36 leah; i'm gonna do that, but with free software/hardware

05:36 matey; matey: ever watched the 1999 movie "fight club" <- a favourite

05:36 leah; decentralized movement

05:36 matey; rip meatloaf

05:36 leah; unifying what are currently separate, disunified projects/orgs

05:36 matey; ?-2022

05:36 leah; freedom as an argument is solid

05:37 leah; but our current leaders are ineffective

05:37 matey; the point of free software was users would have control of their computing

05:37 matey; not their compiler

05:37 leah; mjg59_: wanna see something cool?

05:37 matey; the work rms did in this was pioneering

05:37 matey; but pioneering has a way of finding new frontiers

05:38 matey; and free hardware is the next frontier for users that want to be libre

05:38 leah; mjg59_: this is sam's photolithography stepper, used to beam gate patterns onto silicon waifers:

05:38 leah; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxz_ENnmgtI

05:38 TR Bot; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Nxz_ENnmgtI

05:38 TR Bot; yewtu.be | Maskless Photolithography Stepper for Homemade Chips - Invidious

05:38 matey; its not a fad, its not a science project for lulz

05:38 matey; its a movement

05:38 leah; mjg59_: he built it, by modifying a $100 DLP projector, second hand, that me purchased on amazon

05:38 matey; the fsf is stupid to not recognise this-- its very foolish

05:38 leah; he describes it in that video

05:38 matey; people who care about free software should be ECSTATIC over this

05:38 kingoffrance; matey, a pioneer is someone with arrows in their back :)

05:38 leah; mjg59_: intel's photolithography steppers cost billions of dollars

05:38 matey; kingoffrance: dont ever change

05:38 mjg59_; leah: Literally everything I am in favour of from a security perspective would be better if it could be fabricated in an entirely free manner

05:38 leah; he did it with a shit dlp projector

05:38 leah; and it works

05:38 kingoffrance; lol

05:38 leah; lol

05:39 leah; and

05:39 leah; i want to stress this point;

05:39 leah; he did it while he was a highschool student

05:40 matey; leah: free software people who ignore these developments are hardly better than frauds (i want to stress that reasonable exceptions exist-- but there isnt a lot of excuse for this!)

05:40 leah; mjg59_: and this is where you come in

05:40 leah; mjg59_: you have a massive following. i ask of you:

05:40 leah; promote sam's work. promote libre silicon project

05:40 leah; they need more eyes

05:40 leah; you have a massive following

05:40 leah; well. not massive. but a bigger following than i do. lol

05:40 mjg59_; leah: Gladly

05:40 leah; cheers

05:40 matey; /me thinks most of the people who follow matt are probably chasing him with pitchforks

05:41 mjg59_; leah: If you haven't seen anything in a couple of days, remind me - it's late and there's a chance I'll just forget

05:41 matey; at least hes less annoying to talk to than matt lee

05:41 leah; matey: mjg59_ isn't evil

05:41 matey; we have a different concept of evil then

05:41 leah; but i disagree with some things he's said in the past

05:41 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving)

05:42 matey; evil is something that can take over good people

05:42 leah; people are of course entitled to their views

05:42 matey; you see the good in matt. theres good in EVERY person

05:42 matey; its a question of what takes hold

05:42 matey; but point noted anyway

05:42 leah; honestly, most of my disdain for him comes from the rms saga last year

05:42 leah; and i've since become disillusioned with rms

05:42 matey; people are of course entitled to their views <- they have to be. science and society in general fall apart when people arent allowed to have views

05:43 leah; i privately refer to his most loyal followers as "toejam witnesses"

05:43 leah; you know the people i mean

05:43 leah; the people who just blindly parrot whatever he says

05:43 matey; <leah> and i've since become disillusioned with rms <- any chance youve seen babylon 5?

05:43 matey; please say yes

05:43 leah; TW "toejam witness" of course, being a parody of jehovas witnesses

05:43 matey; its the only metaphor that fits here

05:43 leah; lol

05:43 leah; rms isn't evil either

05:43 leah; just wrong

05:44 matey; no hes not evil and he has earned a legacy imo

05:44 leah; about pretty much everything

05:44 leah; free software is great

05:44 matey; theres a point where kosh says (daemonfc can quote this more completely)

05:44 leah; but he isn't the leader of it anymore

05:44 matey; "they are a dying people. we should let them die"

05:44 matey; this applies to the fsf

05:44 leah; matey: but the problem isn't who is in charge

05:44 leah; the problem is that there's 1 person in charge

05:44 leah; i want a federated movement

05:44 matey; thats part fo the problem

05:44 leah; with no clear leadership

05:45 leah; no central control

05:45 matey; yes, we need a federated movement

05:45 leah; the fsf/gnu model worked in the 90s when the movement was small

05:45 leah; these days, it's huge

05:45 matey; for the same reasons raid exists

05:45 leah; free software has "won" but the very people who started it lost control of it

05:45 leah; but they stuck to the old ways

05:45 matey; yes

05:45 leah; i initially thought:

05:45 leah; just grow a bigger org

05:45 leah; but that doesn't solve anything

05:45 matey; i dont think you have the slightest idea how completely we agree on this

05:45 leah; what we need is a "federal freedom charter"

05:45 matey; it goes beyond what you can imagine

05:45 leah; defining our movement

05:45 kingoffrance; you guys are arguing for conway's law :D

05:45 matey; i was saying this before you were

05:46 matey; but-- youre the person that can make it happen

05:46 leah; and in the light of sam zeloof's work, we can now effectively campaign for true hardware freedom

05:46 leah; the current movement focuses purely on software

05:46 leah; there *is* a free hardware movement

05:46 leah; but it isn't organized politically

05:46 leah; it's organized on a technical basis only

05:46 matey; im a software person-- even i know that free hardware is the VITAL next step

05:46 leah; we need the same ideological zeal as the fsf

05:46 matey; yes

05:46 leah; but adapted to modern times, encompassing hardware as well as software

05:46 matey; yes

05:46 leah; and we need it yesterday

05:47 matey; <kingoffrance> you guys are arguing for conway's law <- okay, explain

05:47 kingoffrance; its just be being stupidly meta, nothing to explain

05:47 kingoffrance; *me

05:47 matey; <leah> and we need it yesterday <- no, lets wait 10 years so that we can use the time to think up a good excuse for why we waited!

05:47 leah; matey: the federation is coming

05:47 matey; about bloody time too

05:48 leah; the federation of freedom

05:48 matey; should have happened 5 years ago

05:48 matey; but now would suffice

05:48 leah; i'll have something off the ground some time this year

05:48 leah; i wanted to launch it last year

05:48 leah; but

05:48 matey; dont ever stop

05:48 leah; real life gets in the way

05:48 matey; make this one your lifes work

05:48 leah; it will happen

05:48 leah; either i will launch it soon

05:48 leah; or someone else will

05:48 leah; i've been spreading the idea to a select few people

05:48 leah; everyone i tell it to, thinks it's a brilliant idea

05:48 matey; its a NECESSARY idea

05:49 matey; its also smart

05:49 matey; two things that go nicely together

05:49 leah; i'm not going to fight the fsf though

05:49 leah; the fsf can stay where it is

05:49 matey; good

05:49 matey; dont trash rms too much

05:49 leah; the fsf isn't bad. just obsolete

05:49 matey; instein didnt go around kicking newton

05:49 matey; he didnt need to

05:49 leah; he went around kicking college students for getting their math wrong

05:50 matey; newton has his place

05:50 matey; he went around kicking college students for getting their math wrong <- if college students get free hardware wrong, you need to kick them a little

05:50 matey; rms didnt worry about pretending to care about peoples feelings-- he left that to-- actually who in open source pretended to care about peoples feelings?

05:51 leah; matey: i've spoken to zoe, the new fsf ed

05:51 leah; she seems a lot more pragmatic than her predecessors and her current bosses

05:51 matey; does she get it?

05:51 matey; but does she get free hardware?

05:51 matey; as an idea

05:51 leah; she's currently stifled by the old guard pulling her strings, who i presume put her there as their puppet

05:51 matey; i know she cant change the fsf, i dont expect her to

05:51 leah; but i think she's actually pretty on the ball about things

05:51 matey; who i presume put her there as their puppet

05:51 leah; i'm genuinely curious to see what she'll do

05:51 matey; <- that is the only role the fsf can offer anyone at this point

05:52 leah; she appears to have the qualities of a shrewd leader

05:52 leah; and she's a woman, so everyone underestimates her and won't see her coming

05:52 matey; like i said i dont care what she does at the fsf, i want to know if she understands the importance of free hardware even if her position at the fsf is useless

05:52 leah; *and* they'll think twice about challenging her

05:52 matey; she's a woman, so everyone underestimates her <- some of us realise that grace hopper practically invented programming

05:52 matey; unless you count ada of course

05:52 matey; men invented computing (oversimplification but whatever) and women invented programming

05:53 matey; this pattern repeated several times

05:53 matey; im sure women invented computers too

05:53 matey; s/computing/computers/

05:53 leah; women were also the majority of operators in ww2 working on all the machines

05:53 leah; including computers

05:53 matey; but babbage and ada, then the mark i and hopper

05:53 leah; comms industry was all-female

05:53 leah; while the boys were out fighting

05:53 matey; yeah computing was womens work

05:53 matey; big quote marks but that was the culture of the day

05:54 matey; do the cooking, do the laundry, run all the mainframes

05:54 leah; matey: anyway

05:54 matey; build the apollo guidance computer...

05:54 leah; i think the fsf can be useful in my plans

05:54 matey; dont rely on them, theyre useless

05:54 matey; but if you can use them, whatever, good?

05:54 leah; i won't rely on them

05:54 matey; good

05:54 leah; but i think there's a chance they could assist me, in the future

05:54 leah; a leg-up, if you will

05:54 matey; build the apollo guidance computer... <- all women

05:55 matey; at least the software

05:55 matey; which was on physical wires

05:55 leah; stallman's fsf will never help me

05:55 leah; but stallman is not long for this world

05:55 matey; its a mistake to throw stallman under the bus

05:55 leah; i won't

05:55 matey; it will hurt your credibility (but it wont stop free hardware)

05:55 matey; good, its a point of honour more than a strategic issue

05:56 leah; that guy completely opposes free hardware, though

05:56 matey; you can do this honourably

05:56 leah; look at the libreplanet-discuss thread, on this very topic

05:56 leah; it started in january 2022 and extended into february

05:56 matey; that guy completely opposes free hardware, though <- im not against skewering him for this position

05:56 matey; but give him his legacy, hes earned it

05:56 kingoffrance; matey, https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/when-computers-were-human/ look up dictionary, old term for people :D

05:56 TR Bot; When Computers Were Human | NASA

05:56 leah; he doesn't oppose it in principle

05:56 leah; but in practise

05:56 kingoffrance; hardware is just simulating people :D

05:56 leah; his positions are conservative by modern standards

05:56 matey; computers were people too, kingoffrance

05:56 kingoffrance; lol

05:56 leah; he clings to the old assumptions that you cannot control hardware

05:56 leah; and sam zeloof has disproved that assertion

05:56 matey; yes

05:57 leah; he was even shown sam's work, in that thread

05:57 matey; it was a reasonable given when it was true

05:57 leah; know what he said?

05:57 leah; "but can it boot linux?"

05:57 leah; i'm paraphrasing, of course

05:57 matey; but its like basing a theory of transportation on heavier-than-air-flight being impossible

05:57 leah; he completely misunderstood the point

05:57 matey; we have plans ffs

05:57 matey; planes

05:57 leah; matey: lol look up early attempts at building helicopters in the 1920s

05:58 matey; autogyros, the helicopter any idiot can fly

05:58 matey; they didnt take off because most people shouldnt be behind the wheel of ANYTHING, even if its easy to operate

05:59 leah; matey: are you aware of my recent criticisms of fsf ryf/fsdg policy?

05:59 matey; yes ive read them

05:59 leah; you'll note that, in those documents, i didn't attack the fsf

05:59 matey; you cant write as fast as i can read your website

05:59 matey; please go back to cc0.

05:59 leah; ?

05:59 matey; i know you wont, ill say it anyway.

05:59 leah; anyway, you'll note that i didn't attack the fsf or rms in any way

05:59 matey; or cc by sa or something

05:59 leah; i criticized their positions

05:59 leah; i'm allowed to do that

05:59 matey; criticising their positions isnt merely acceptable

6 AM, March 21

06:00 matey; it is NECESSARY

06:00 matey; this is what science does

06:00 matey; it rejects bullshit

06:00 leah; but i did for example, say that the fsf is evil or whatever, or denounce them

06:00 matey; and the fsfs position on free hardware are bullshit

06:00 leah; the strong point i made was that the fsf is *conservative* by modern standards

06:00 matey; almost scientifically bullshit

06:00 leah; yep

06:00 leah; well, it's ok to criticize someone constructively

06:01 leah; i criticize rms heavily

06:01 matey; of course it is

06:01 leah; but

06:01 leah; i do respect the man

06:01 leah; he's a good man

06:01 matey; im glad

06:01 matey; his contributions to computing are no joke

06:01 leah; but you know

06:01 matey; he kicked off a lot of what we must carry forward

06:01 leah; everyone has their day

06:01 matey; it pisses me off so much that he gets hardware wrong

06:01 leah; everyone has their time

06:01 leah; and sometimes

06:01 leah; your time is over

06:01 leah; and it becomes time to let new people have their day

06:02 matey; well newton couldnt be the leading authority on physics forever

06:02 leah; and we're currently in the transition period on that

06:02 leah; we have been for the last few years now

06:02 matey; leah: this issue goes so much beyond the ego issues people will say this is all about

06:02 leah; and i snapped out of the spell i was in last year, and have come to also realize this

06:02 matey; esr was an ego issue-- i think kuhn is an ego issue

06:03 matey; this is an issue of being correct about the future, and about freedom

06:03 matey; we cant get freedom wrong just to make people happy

06:03 leah; matey: the free software movement is actually in a pretty good position

06:03 matey; or for "unity" or some bullshit

06:03 leah; what we need is a hardware movement too

06:03 leah; sam's work has enabled us to make a start on it

06:03 matey; what we need is a hardware movement too <- agreed

06:03 matey; its not like free software will cease to matter

06:03 leah; before sam's work, the "hardware" movement was still software

06:03 leah; just at a lower level

06:04 matey; mark my words, there will be people who say non-free software on free hardware is fine, because you control the machine

06:04 leah; of course, there are FPGAs

06:04 leah; the hardware movement started on FPGAs

06:04 matey; its stupid but that never stopped a specious argument

06:04 matey; yes

06:04 leah; free hardware movement, that is

06:04 leah; it has graduated to raw silicon

06:04 matey; yes!

06:04 matey; i predicted fpgas as a lad you know

06:04 matey; i was a huge fan of eeproms

06:04 matey; i was like "we should make cpus like this"

06:05 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 24.01 k/sec., IPFS upstream 19.31 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.84

06:05 matey; never got into hardware

06:05 matey; but its pretty damned important

06:05 matey; raw silicon is the obvious next step

06:05 leah; i mean

06:05 leah; remember pic chips?

06:05 matey; of course

06:06 leah; from like, the 90s. possibly earlier actually

06:06 leah; yeah, that was a thing

06:06 matey; i often think of switching from python to some pic language

06:06 leah; >pic12c508a

06:06 matey; or a lighter python made for embedded pic-chip-like platforms

06:07 matey; its only a matter of time before gcc only works on multi-core platforms

06:07 matey; okay thats trolling a little

06:07 matey; but its almost true

06:07 leah; matey: https://sigma.octopart.com/146260243/image/Microchip-PIC12C508A-04-P.jpg

06:07 Alternative link; Cloudflare: octopart.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://sigma.octopart.com/146260243/image/Microchip-PIC12C508A-04-P.jpg

06:07 mjg59_; leah: Oh no lkcl is involved in the libre silicon project?

06:07 leah; why is that an oh no?

06:08 matey; that is an oh no

06:08 matey; but imo only for the same reason i would say oh no if matt were involved

06:08 leah; what's wrong with luke?

06:08 mjg59_; My experience is that he has a great deal of confidence that he understands problems better than he does

06:08 leah; idk he seems pretty solid

06:09 matey; my confidence is not shaken

06:09 mjg59_; And tends to drag other people down unhelpful paths

06:09 matey; how central is he to libre silicon anyway?

06:09 matey; probably not very, this is why im not very concerned

06:09 mjg59_; He's not really followed through terribly well on any projects from the past 20 years

06:09 leah; isn't that basically every engineer though?

06:09 matey; he cant be as bad as todd weaver or leah would already hate him

06:10 matey; isn't that basically every engineer though? <- close enough

06:10 leah; i've spoken to him a couple of times, even met him (at fosdem 2016)

06:10 matey; except the wright brothers

06:10 mjg59_; matey: To his credit I don't think he's gained any meaningful personal benefit from any of this

06:10 mjg59_; His heart is in entirely the right place

06:10 matey; shit they were efficient and focused

06:10 leah; mjg59_: libre silicon did a nifty presentation at fosdem 2022

06:10 leah; they seem to have their eye on the ball

06:10 mjg59_; leah: Was it recorded? I'll try to watch it.

06:11 matey; mjg59_: im an anticapitalist, but even i dont think every person thats bad is in it for the money

06:11 leah; their eye on the balls, that is

06:11 leah; bga solder balls

06:11 leah; yeah hang on

06:11 leah; mjg59_: https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/libresilicon/

06:11 TR Bot; FOSDEM 2022 - Using LibreSilicon

06:11 mjg59_; leah: Thanks!

06:11 leah; the recording is embedded in that page

06:11 matey; ego is just as dangerous as greed

06:11 matey; /me points at kuhn

06:11 leah; direct video link: http://bofh.nikhef.nl/events/FOSDEM/2022/D.open-hardware/libresilicon.webm

06:12 leah; lol m8 what's your beef with brad

06:12 matey; hell i think kuhn believes he is well-intentionewd

06:12 matey; what's your beef with brad <- hes trying to be the next stallman

06:12 matey; in the worst possible way

06:12 matey; its esr all over again

06:12 matey; this will not end well

06:12 leah; idk sfc seems to be doing good work, within its own niche

06:12 *TechrightsBot-tr has quit (connection closed)

06:12 mjg59_; leah: Going to drop offline shortly, but again, I sincerely apologise if I gave the impression that I dislike Libreboot as a project - I want as much unauditable stuff out of the boot chain as possible

06:13 mjg59_; And I appreciate all the effort you've put into that

06:13 matey; /me hopes sfc falls before fsf, not that fsf serves any purpose anymore

06:13 leah; mjg59_: if you're serious about that last part, then stop promoting pluton lol

06:13 leah; oppose it instead

06:13 matey; granted they have busybox and qemu and a lot of other stuff ive enjoyed using under their umbrella

06:13 mjg59_; leah: Heh, it's fair to point out that there's a conflict there

06:13 leah; conflict?

06:13 matey; i think he means payment

06:13 mjg59_; leah: Between my stated goals and my actions

06:14 leah; lol is mjg59_ a microsoft employee or what

06:14 matey; or employment, which is basically the same thing

06:14 matey; not every person working for the wrong employer is a softie

06:14 leah; or you grow a pair and say fuck you to their job offer

06:14 matey; i have no idea if the car people i think matt still works for care about pluton at all

06:15 mjg59_; Oh, I've turned down offers from Microsoft

06:15 matey; or if his interest in pluton is job-related

06:15 leah; mjg59_: what are your actions

06:15 leah; also, who is your employer

06:15 mjg59_; leah: Talking about security benefits of Pluton

06:15 leah; devils advocate then?

06:15 matey; ooh, leah, while youre here

06:16 leah; even if pluton does give tangible benefits, i wouldn't promote it. it's completely superfluous, at best

06:16 leah; and at worst, hostile

06:16 matey; 20 second (20 minute is fine, i know youre busy) take on moglen?

06:16 leah; eben moglen?

06:16 matey; yes

06:16 leah; i'm only familiar with his earlier involvement in the fsf, up to and including gplv3 drafting process

06:16 matey; good guy?

06:17 leah; my opinion about him is currently neutral, due to lack of up to date information

06:17 matey; fair enough

06:17 matey; cheers

06:17 matey; keep up the good work

06:17 leah; however

06:17 leah; my opinion about him up to and including 2007 is that he seemed solid

06:17 matey; /me nods

06:17 matey; i like him

06:17 leah; i don't know what he's done since 07

06:17 leah; just so we're clear

06:18 matey; its very clear

06:18 matey; since you havent followed him im only asking about your opinion of him in that timeframe

06:18 matey; i dont like trick questions, they dont help the world very much

06:18 leah; i *did* watch him talk in 2015

06:18 leah; at fsf30 conference

06:18 leah; i think it was fsf30

06:19 leah; it was in a building, i think.... milk street? i think the building was on milk street in boston, ma

06:19 leah; it was late. like, i think 9pm

06:19 matey; mmhmm

06:19 leah; all of us went there to a floor on that building

06:19 leah; and a bunch of people spoke

06:19 leah; there were chairs

06:19 leah; and cake

06:19 leah; also beer

06:19 matey; nice

06:19 leah; and eben moglen did a talk

06:19 leah; i don't remember the details of the talk

06:19 leah; but i'll tell you what i thought of him during the talk:

06:19 leah; he seems to have a huge ego

06:19 leah; like

06:19 leah; for real

06:20 leah; but that's not necessarily bad

06:20 matey; i mean hes a law professor

06:20 leah; that's how i first learned he even exists

06:20 leah; i researched his name, afterwards

06:20 matey; a lot of successful professors are completely full of themselves anyway

06:20 matey; im not saying he is

06:20 leah; i got into free software in like, 2006

06:20 mjg59_; Oh and there was group that sang the free software song

06:20 matey; but if hes VERY confident... a lot of people in lesser positions are

06:20 leah; but only really started getting properly clued up around 2012

06:21 mjg59_; An actual Hungarian folk band

06:21 leah; mjg59_: yep, you were there

06:21 leah; i was there

06:21 matey; ive been windows-free since 2007

06:21 leah; did you see me there?

06:21 leah; i wasn't out as trans

06:21 leah; we may have spoke, or bumped into each other

06:21 leah; you were aware of my existence then

06:21 mjg59_; It's possible, I'm afraid I'm terrible at remembering people

06:21 leah; well, no matter

06:22 leah; i know you were aware, because your derisive tweets about libreboot pre-date that event :P

06:22 matey; /me wonders what point matt made against libreboot

06:22 leah; yeah let me check

06:22 leah; it was some tpm bullshit

06:22 mjg59_; 2015 was, uh, not a good year for me in general

06:22 matey; like i dont care that it was derisive, im just curious what the critique was

06:22 leah; about how, derp, libreboot excludes ME

06:22 matey; thank fuck

06:22 leah; and yeah, ME on ich9m hardware, handles tpm

06:23 leah; and i remove me

06:23 mjg59_; It's entirely possible that I was more negative than I should have been

06:23 leah; so

06:23 matey; you know today i accidentally sold something from the fsf store

06:23 leah; matey: btw, nitter is a good way to search someone's twitter

06:23 matey; i didnt mean to, believe me

06:23 leah; matey: https://nitter.net/mjg59/search

06:23 matey; if i patch up any differences between leah and matt too in the same day

06:23 matey; i might have to kill myself

06:23 matey; yeah i use nitter sometimes

06:24 mjg59_; Hey, I don't think leah's going to suddenly forgive me for secure boot stuff

06:24 mjg59_; (Which is fair!)

06:24 matey; fingers crossed matt

06:24 leah; ok, it seems i was overly sensitive when i saw your tweet in 2015

06:24 leah; i've just found it

06:24 leah; and looking in retrospect

06:24 leah; you were just being factual

06:24 leah; https://nitter.net/mjg59/search?f=tweets&q=libreboot&since=&until=&near=

06:25 matey; matt for my sake, keep pushing pluton

06:25 matey; im against it, but YOU shouldnt be

06:25 leah; matey: wanna see something truly sexy?

06:26 matey; hopefully this will keep a nice divide between you and leah, as god intended

06:26 leah; osboot has a logo now

06:26 leah; and here is the boot screen, with logo bootsplash:

06:26 leah; https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1505770916265054209

06:26 matey; leah: absolutely

06:26 leah; mjg59_ is currently blocked by me, thinking of maybe unblocking him. but:

06:26 leah; https://nitter.net/n4of7/status/1505770916265054209

06:26 leah; in case he wants to see it. lol

06:27 leah; eric cartman face. >_< is eric cartman

06:27 leah; mjg59_: have you heard about osboot?

06:27 matey; fuck thats adorable

06:27 leah; i started it back in december, of 2020. read osboot.org if you haven't seen it yet

06:27 leah; mjg59_: osboot is what my ideology was in 2015

06:28 matey; leah: i follow the future of free software very closely

06:28 leah; but i was sequestered by fsf's dogmatism. was making too much money on them. i think osboot has superior goals to libreboot

06:28 leah; (is dogmatism a word? or is it just dogma)

06:28 matey; i was already up to date on your blog when it was cc0

06:28 matey; if it wasnt a word it is now

06:28 leah; wait, i released my blog on cc0?

06:28 mjg59_; leah: I haven't looked at osboot in detail, but it feels like the most workable compromise given current technology

06:28 leah; i don't remember. i changed it a while ago

06:28 matey; shakespeare coined "luggage" and a bunch of other words

06:29 matey; turns out you can just make up words, and if they stick, thats the proof

06:29 leah; it's creative commons non-deriv at present

06:29 leah; if you mean vimuser.org blog

06:29 matey; yeah that makes me sad

06:29 leah; why?

06:29 leah; it's just shitposts

06:29 matey; no-derivs is so fsf, but thats not why

06:29 matey; but they were cc0 shitposts (and im only being agreeable, i dont agree theyre shitposts)

06:29 matey; im a free culture advocate who thinks rms was wrong about no-derives

06:29 leah; it's just... a shitpost article about lana watchowski's 1999 cry for help

06:29 matey; theres nothing other than that wrong with yhour license choice

06:30 matey; wrong with that other than ^

06:30 leah; plus an article about stallman

06:30 matey; basically i just hate no-derives the fsfs penchant for it

06:30 leah; oh also me coming out as nb....

06:30 leah; and some css thing

06:30 matey; yeah i use they now

06:30 leah; who cares lol

06:30 leah; 1337box is cc0 btw

06:30 matey; i know

06:30 matey; i noticed

06:30 matey; it made me happy

06:31 matey; particularly that the post about it was cc0 as well-- any gpl-compatible license would do for the software

06:31 leah; yeah i figure, web devs have attention deficit anyway, and never read licenses

06:31 leah; might aswell go cc0

06:31 matey; im not a web dev

06:31 leah; they aren't going to comply with expat license

06:31 leah; (if it were c code, i'd use expat)

06:31 TR News; #Techrights Bulletin for Sunday, March 20, 2022 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext

06:31 leah; (i use expat license now, on all/most new projects)

06:31 TR News; #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing

06:32 matey; expat is...

06:32 matey; x11?

06:32 leah; no

06:32 leah; mit

06:32 leah; but it's the expat one

06:32 matey; gpl-compatible?

06:32 leah; yeah

06:32 matey; works for me

06:32 leah; sublicensing clause in expat allows full compatibility with gplv2 and 3

06:32 matey; nice

06:32 leah; that's precisely why i use expat instead of isc

06:32 leah; i *want* my work to be used, everywhere

06:32 matey; isc isnt compatible with gpl?

06:33 leah; it is but....

06:33 leah; no sublicensing clause

06:33 matey; ok

06:33 leah; just to be clear, i specifically prefer expat because it allows sublicensing

06:33 matey; /me nods

06:33 leah; i actually still think gpl is great

06:33 leah; gplv2 was great

06:33 matey; im an agpl fan

06:33 leah; v3 split the movement, and jinxed it. gplv2 was just called "the gpl" and was the default license, prior to 2007

06:34 matey; but i advocate a scientific approach to copyleft

06:34 leah; i considered for a while: i will release everything under gplv2-only

06:34 matey; in other words, we should watch to see if it works and if it achieves what it wants to

06:34 leah; i used to be a hardcore v3 fan, but i snapped out of that

06:34 matey; and if it fails, throw it out

06:34 leah; i concluded: copyleft is screwed

06:34 matey; im not convinced either is better yet

06:34 leah; copyleft only works if everyone uses it

06:34 leah; and barely anyone does, these days

06:34 matey; im not sure thats true

06:34 leah; so i considered the problem: how can i make my work usable everywhere?

06:34 leah; and the expat license was the solution i found

06:34 matey; yeah if you want your work to be usable in everything you go with permissive

06:34 matey; ive used cc0 for software too

06:35 leah; specifically, copyleft only works if everyone uses the same *license*

06:35 *CParadoxum__ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

06:35 matey; i pushed for cc0 on the fsf compatibility page

06:35 leah; and nobody does

06:35 matey; they were alreafy working on it

06:35 leah; gplv3 solved none of the problems it set out to solve

06:35 leah; and split the copyleft community in two

06:35 matey; karl fogel screwed that up for osi, thanks karl

06:35 leah; then four

06:35 leah; then 8

06:35 *CParadoxum__ (~quassel@9xkr6pdp2c5xu.irc) has joined #techrights

06:35 leah; and poof. now everything is mit or isc

06:35 leah; because people got fed up

06:36 leah; osi doesn't list cc0?

06:36 matey; if it really works out that way, im in favour of a scientific (non-dogmatic, evidence-based) approach to copyleft

06:36 leah; matey: copyleft is dead

06:36 leah; but freely licensed code is strong

06:36 matey; im concerned about corporations taking it over and using it for slapp-like license enforcement. not like they wont if they can.

06:36 leah; but it's all going permissive these days

06:36 leah; i stopped fighting it

06:36 matey; matey: copyleft is dead <- thats what people say

06:37 matey; i follow this pretty closely

06:37 leah; also

06:37 matey; and when i think its dead ill put it behind me

06:37 matey; either way im not on a crusade, permissive is free too

06:37 leah; the *following* article seriously swayed me. not at first, but it sunk in while i thought about it for a long period after. that, plus other articles, and comments:

06:37 leah; this is the article:

06:37 matey; /me may have read it

06:37 leah; matey: https://unixsheikh.com/articles/the-problems-with-the-gpl.html

06:38 matey; oh yeah ive read it

06:38 leah; i wholeheartedly agree with almost everything the author says

06:38 matey; i wasnt swayed by it

06:38 leah; but at first, i fought it

06:38 leah; but i thought about it some more

06:38 matey; either way im not anti-permissive

06:38 leah; and i can't refute a single point

06:38 leah; and i prefer facts, not feelings

06:38 matey; oh i bet i could, but i havent looked at it in a while

06:38 leah; so i adjusted my feelings

06:38 leah; this is called: cognitive dissonance

06:38 matey; i prefer facts, not feelings <- yes the approach to copyleft should be evidence based

06:39 matey; but im not sure copyleft would lose

06:39 leah; plus

06:39 leah; read the infamous openbsd thread titled "real men don't attack strawmen"

06:39 matey; a lot of the people against it are simply convinced its inconvenient, because lobbyists said so

06:39 matey; thats not better than wanting copyleft just because rms said

06:39 matey; read the infamous openbsd thread titled "real men don't attack strawmen" <- ive read it, and i use openbsd

06:39 leah; when you read that thread, don't look at stallman's comments

06:40 matey; and rms was unfair to de raadt

06:40 leah; look at what the bsd people are saying

06:40 matey; and roy is VERY unfair about openbsd

06:40 matey; spreading fud

06:40 leah; openbsd is great

06:40 matey; ridiculous fud

06:40 matey; yes it is

06:40 leah; i would argue that openbsd is the *most* free os

06:40 matey; openbsd gives you freedom 3. gnu cant do that.

06:40 leah; do you have any inclination as to why i would say that?

06:40 matey; yeah but im not against what hyperbola is doing

06:40 matey; hyperbola is the reason im using openbsd.

06:40 leah; it's not because of licensing

06:40 leah; openbsd could be gplv3+ and i'd still say it

06:41 leah; i say it because:

06:41 matey; its because it takes freedom seriously

06:41 leah; openbsd has the *cleanest* code you will ever read

06:41 matey; yes

06:41 matey; you can actually take openbsd

06:41 leah; it's the *best*, mostly *well-written* source code ever written, ever

06:41 matey; and fork the whole thing

06:41 leah; you can read openbsd code and be like, wow, this makes sense

06:41 leah; even kernel code

06:41 leah; try auditing linux

06:41 matey; yes!

06:41 leah; i dare you

06:41 matey; linux will collapse under its own weight

06:41 leah; try auditing any project listed on gnu.org/software

06:41 matey; so will gnu within the next 7 years

06:42 matey; i know

06:42 TR News; The Patent Distortion: 7 Days of News and Blogs, Not a Single Mention of EPO Affairs | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-patent-distortion-part-6/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-patent-distortion-part-6/

06:42 leah; matey: there's a meme that gnu currently hosts

06:42 leah; it's called:

06:42 matey; im not just being agreeable-- these are points fo made for more than a year

06:42 matey; ive made

06:42 leah; https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/

06:42 matey; oh that thing lol

06:42 leah; try auditing gnu's implementation of hello world

06:42 leah; i tried, just the other week

06:42 leah; i attempted to fork it, to create a new program, that i call "insult"

06:42 matey; hello world was invented by brian kernighan

06:42 leah; it would say "fuck you" in every language

06:42 leah; i failed

06:43 leah; *i failed* to fork gnu's hello world program

06:43 leah; and i'm a competent c programmer

06:43 matey; thats because a lot of gnu is unforkable

06:43 matey; freedom 3 in theory only

06:43 matey; i keep saying this, almost no one gets it

06:43 leah; matey: that piece of trash bootstraps both gnulib *and* gettext

06:43 leah; just to print hello

06:43 matey; systemg

06:43 leah; no, systemd is *good* compared to gnu

06:44 matey; im not convinced-- same problem, different scale one way or the other

06:44 matey; at any rate we agree on where openbsd fits into this

06:44 matey; 100%

06:44 matey; for the same reasons

06:45 matey; now explain to roy (im mostly joking, you have more important things to do)

06:45 matey; so he can stop trolling openbsd

06:45 leah; #include <stdio.h>

06:45 leah; int main()

06:45 leah; {

06:45 leah; print("balls\n");

06:45 leah; }

06:46 leah; that's hello world

06:46 matey; /// giggles

06:46 matey; oops

06:46 leah; well, add a "return 0;"

06:46 leah; 6 sloc

06:46 matey; the most c ive edited and compiled was a screen lock program

06:46 leah; gnu hello is 600 sloc

06:46 leah; sloc = source lines of code

06:46 matey; i edited some array thing to change the bitmap of the cursor

06:46 matey; yes it had a cursor

06:46 mjg59_; The GNU coding standards are a thing of their time

06:46 leah; also i meant to type printf, not print

06:46 leah; it's late. or early

06:47 leah; i can't tell anymore

06:47 matey; as long as you get the polarity of the neutron flow right

06:47 mjg59_; Unfortunately their time is a long time in the past

06:47 leah; mjg59_: openbsd coding style is pretty great

06:47 leah; i also like seabios source code

06:47 mjg59_; GNU still requires a changelog

06:47 leah; seabios is a true gem

06:47 leah; i encourage you to read seabios source code

06:47 leah; it's very clean

06:48 leah; coreboot's pretty solid too

06:48 mjg59_; Which (a) duplicates the RCS history, and (b) makes merging massively harder

06:48 matey; gnu will collapse in 7 years

06:48 mjg59_; I hope not

06:48 leah; you reckon?

06:48 matey; im sure some of it will be salvaged, id encouarge it

06:48 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

06:48 leah; mjg59_: why do *you* hope not?

06:48 mjg59_; leah: Because I want a high quality GPLed userland

06:48 matey; he hopes its sooner

06:49 matey; oh i was wrong

06:49 leah; mjg59_: but high quality non-gpl userlands do exist

06:49 mjg59_; And I would prefer it to be maintained by the community rather than by corporations

06:49 leah; that are nonetheless free software

06:49 leah; mjg59_: linux is gpl and it's maintained by corporations

06:49 leah; openbsd is isc and it's maintained by a community

06:49 matey; a community that writes forkable code

06:49 leah; also

06:49 mjg59_; Given the choice between corporate GPL and community liberal license, I'd take corporate GPL, but I'd prefer community GPL to either

06:50 matey; which you need for freedom 3 to actually work

06:50 leah; most gcc devs are on ibm payroll

06:50 matey; /me had no idea mjg had such a hardon for the gpl

06:50 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@pumv3cb2rfinu.irc) has joined #techrights

06:50 leah; mjg59_: or, you let the companies add whatever shit code they want to your project, and they can maintain it themselves. their fork will die as soon as they lose interest

06:51 leah; and your project chugs along just fine

06:51 mjg59_; matey: I'm *extremely* in favour of ensuring that everyone has access to the same freedoms

06:51 leah; without that company feeling incentivized to take you over

06:51 leah; that's what happened with linux

06:51 matey; mjg59_ so am i if it works. leahs the one saying copyleft is dead

06:51 mjg59_; I've spent too much time reverse engineering derivates of BSDed code

06:51 matey; im saying we should keep taking its pulse, it might not be

06:51 matey; but if and when its dead, its dead

06:52 leah; mjg59_: copyleft is ok for small projects

06:52 leah; the bigger your project gets, the *more* risk it is to corporate takeover if it's copyleft

06:52 matey; mjg59_ the best argument for gpl was from someone from x11/xorg maybe... keith... bostic?

06:52 leah; ibm/redhat pushes pure garbage in the name of gpl

06:52 mjg59_; matey: Packard?

06:52 matey; <leah> the bigger your project gets, the *more* risk it is to corporate takeover if it's copyleft <- curious about this

06:53 matey; matey: Packard? <- probably, i can never keep the two straight

06:53 matey; because there are like only 2 reasons i ever mention either

06:53 leah; matey: if you're forced to release source code of your fork, that means you're now maintaining a public free software project. and you don't want that. that's money you have to spend

06:53 matey; one is this gpl thing

06:53 matey; /me searches

06:53 leah; matey: so your inclination is to upstream your code

06:53 leah; matey: and then your inclination is to control the upstream

06:54 leah; and as a company, you also don't have an inclination to care about quality

06:54 matey; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj02_UeUnGQ <- keith packard on why copyleft would have helped x11

06:54 leah; you just want to push to market sap

06:54 leah; asap*

06:54 matey; you just want to push to market sap <- incredibly, my motives here are the same as mjgs

06:54 matey; i want people to have freedom

06:55 matey; if permissive code means more people have freedom IN PRACTICE then i want permissive

06:55 matey; if copyleft means that, i want copyleft

06:55 leah; btw i've nothing against copyleft in practise, and in principle it's great

06:55 matey; if it depends on the project, that doesnt bother me

06:55 leah; but, in practise, it is inferior in a lot of cases

06:55 leah; i maintain quite a few gpl'd projects

06:55 matey; a lot of people have spent money lobbying against gpl

06:55 matey; that doesnt mean gpl is better

06:56 leah; and want to license them under expat instead. but meh

06:56 leah; too much work

06:56 matey; it means greater scepticism is needed for claims that gpl is dead or doesnt work

06:56 matey; but if its dead or doesnt work, im not bothered

06:56 matey; ive used permissive, ive used copyleft (gpl3, i also like agpl3)

06:57 matey; i maintain quite a few gpl'd projects <- more than i do im sure

06:57 matey; i need to stress im not married to either scheme-- i just want to see the evaluation be scientific and evidence based

06:57 matey; we need more data

06:57 matey; probably.

06:58 matey; i used openbsd, im not butthurt that they use permissive. its part of their values as a project

06:58 matey; they WANT microsoft to use their code-- instead of writing their own shit

06:58 mjg59_; Permissive licenses are free software

06:58 matey; yes

06:58 mjg59_; It's not what I'm going to prioritise, but it benefits society

06:58 matey; there are plenty of arguments for both

06:59 matey; i want whichever one makes the most users (all users) free in practice

06:59 matey; in theory thats gpl

06:59 matey; in practice it may still be gpl

06:59 matey; but in theory its definitely gpl

06:59 matey; i think we need more data (even now, which does sound pedantic)

7 AM, March 21

07:00 matey; theres been more misinformation than information, for one

07:00 matey; and there ARE good arguments for both.

07:00 *SomeH4x0r (~someh4xx@kmujm4s8xqrtu.irc) has joined #techrights

07:00 matey; and lately people talk like permissive is non-free

07:00 matey; which is simply untrue and misleading, and dogmatic. and not even when rms ever said

07:01 matey; what a weird combination

07:01 matey; but not something mjg said (hes more prone to arguments that are technically correct)

07:02 matey; you can be technically correct and sometimes full of shit in other ways of course

07:02 matey; but if someones technically correct you cant get them on technical correctness

07:02 matey; in other ways <- like missing context, that sort of thing

07:02 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 30.13 k/sec., IPFS upstream 27.60 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.85

07:02 TR News; http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/joining-epo-strike/

07:04 matey; i think a lot of people at libreplanet consider themselves anticapitalist and against hierarchy

07:04 matey; but use tactics that will only serve corporate takeover and resulting hierarchy

07:04 TR News; [Meme] Join the EPO Strike | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/joining-epo-strike/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/joining-epo-strike/

07:04 matey; thats a technical error, even if its well intentioned

07:06 mjg59_; matey: Anyway, even if we clearly disagree on some points, thank you for the worthwhile conversation - I've learned some interesting things

07:07 TR News; Review: Pardus 21.1 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162786

07:07 TR News; Linux Kernel 5.17 Released. This is Whats New Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162787

07:07 matey; mjg59_: i dont think we will ever be allies, at least not in the next few lifetimes

07:07 matey; but you ARE less obnoxious than matt lee

07:07 matey; hell it pains me to say it, but its true

07:08 matey; matt lee doesnt even make real arguments

07:08 matey; he just changes the gravitational constant of the universe to show that hes at the centre of it

07:10 matey; and i wont really kill myself if i accidentally get you to patch things up with leah

07:10 matey; ill just spiral into a depression for a couple years

07:10 matey; shit happens

07:10 TR News; Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) 5 now available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162666#comment-33125

07:11 TR News; OpenSSL issues fixes for yet another serious vulnerability http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162593#comment-33126

07:12 TR News; "It wasn't after disconnecting from the problem and spending some time away from the computer that it came to me and I figured it out" https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2022/03/19/time/

07:12 TR News; "Python has often been touted as a "batteries included" language because of its rich standard library that provides access to numerous utility modules and is distributed with the language" https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/888043/1bd384391190f7d1/

07:13 TR News; Telegrams ban in Brazil has been lifted https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/20/22988183/telegrams-ban-brazil-lifted-president-bolsonaro

07:14 TR News; Microsoft Windows TCO https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/cyber-warfare-becomes-part-curriculum-ukrainian-students

07:14 TR News; Gulag Has Opened the Door To Clownflare https://danielmiessler.com/blog/google-has-opened-the-door-to-cloudflare/

07:14 Alternative link; Cloudflare: danielmiessler.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://danielmiessler.com/blog/google-has-opened-the-door-to-cloudflare/

07:15 TR News; SPY Home components https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2022-03-19-smart-home-components/

07:15 Alternative link; Cloudflare: stapelberg.ch | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2022-03-19-smart-home-components/

07:16 TR News; "Julian and Stella have asked that instead of sending gifts, please consider one of the following..." https://dontextraditeassange.com/events/assange-wedding/

07:16 TR News; "The campaign shows examples of situations where competitors agree to fix prices, divide markets, and rig bids all of which are illegal activities" https://itwire.com/government-tech-news/technology-regulation/businesses-warned-about-consequences-of-cartels.html

07:16 Alternative link; Cloudflare: itwire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://itwire.com/government-tech-news/technology-regulation/businesses-warned-about-consequences-of-cartels.html

07:17 matey; leah broke http://techrights.org/irc/ with their fosdem link

07:17 matey; it hasnt updated in an hour

07:17 TR News; Faulty update brainwashes AEG microwaves into thinking theyre steam ovens https://thenextweb.com/news/update-brainwashes-microwaves-thinking-theyre-steam-ovens

07:17 Alternative link; Cloudflare: thenextweb.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://thenextweb.com/news/update-brainwashes-microwaves-thinking-theyre-steam-ovens

07:17 matey; (i have no idea what actually caused it, the fosdem link was the last update)

07:17 schestowitz; let's check

07:18 *darwin has quit (Quit: Leaving)

07:18 *TechrightsBot-tr (~TR@ju4kayhrhsm6a.irc) has joined #techrights

07:18 TechrightsBot-tr; Hello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77

07:18 schestowitz-TR; right, this is why

07:19 schestowitz; as a fallback there is http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-status.txt

07:19 schestowitz; and there is also another over gemini://

07:19 TR News; IRC Proceedings: Sunday, March 20, 2022 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/irc-log-200322/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/irc-log-200322/

07:19 TR Bot; IRC Proceedings: Sunday, March 20, 2022 | Techrights

07:20 matey; i presume if one is frozen they all are, but that assumes they work in a way that makes sense to me

07:20 leah; anyway

07:20 leah; i was afk

07:20 schestowitz-TR; matey: no, different code

07:20 schestowitz-TR; you can see the code in git

07:20 matey; yeah i know, i havent looked

07:21 leah; mjg59_: it could just be because i'm tired, but for some reason i no longer consider you an asshole

07:21 schestowitz-TR; there's some .fig code we could add there..

07:21 leah; i'll unblock you on twitter

07:21 TR News; Haiku - An Open Source OS Thats Different From The Norm https://odysee.com/@oldtechbloke:8/haiku-an-open-source-os-that's-different:7

07:21 Alternative link; Cloudflare: odysee.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://odysee.com/@oldtechbloke:8/haiku-an-open-source-os-that's-different:7

07:21 TR Bot; Haiku - An Open Source OS That's Different From The Norm

07:21 leah; done

07:22 matey; <leah> mjg59_: it could just be because i'm tired, but for some reason i no longer consider you an asshole

07:22 matey; goddamnit this must be what oliva feels like on a regular basis

07:22 leah; matey: someone disagreeing with me doesn't make them an asshole

07:22 leah; matey: what's this now? (regarding oliva. also, which oliva?)

07:22 matey; leah that wasnt ever my logic fwiw

07:23 matey; leah youre british so i dont assume that youve ever read "alexander and the terrible horrible no good very bad day"

07:23 matey; they spelled his first name wrong.

07:23 TR News; Why is a Microsofters speaking 'for' the government now? https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/the-sky-is-not-falling-yet-but-chris-krebs-says-it-may-still-happen.html

07:23 Alternative link; Cloudflare: itwire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/the-sky-is-not-falling-yet-but-chris-krebs-says-it-may-still-happen.html

07:23 TR Bot; - The sky is not falling yet. But Chris Krebs says it may still happen

07:23 leah; my problem with mjg59_ was: 1) stallman stance (but i since changed my own mind about stallman) and 2) his earlier statements about libreboot, but i re-read them today, and i'm less offended. i misread his comments, all those years ago

07:23 matey; dont change your mind about stallman

07:23 leah; i still dislike what mjg59_ did regarding secureboot. and i don't like his promoting in favour of pluton

07:23 matey; just fight his anti-free-hardware bullshit

07:23 TR News; Arsenal is not enough https://www.vox.com/2022/3/19/22986316/russia-ukraine-cyber-attacks-holding-back

07:23 TR Bot; Russia holding back from cyberwar? - Vox

07:23 leah; matey: yep

07:24 matey; also: there are more olivas?

07:24 matey; i only know of the one

07:25 leah; i don't know who oliva is

07:25 matey; lxo

07:25 leah; oh, that guy

07:25 leah; i call him by his given name

07:25 matey; thats reasonable

07:26 leah; what about lxo?

07:26 matey; its also more typing

07:26 TR News; "Alexandre de Moraes, a Supreme Court judge, said he was blocking Telegram because the app had not fully responded to previous orders to remove the accounts of a prominent supporter of President Jair Bolsonaro." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/world/americas/brazil-bans-telegram.html

07:26 Alternative link; Cloudflare: nytimes.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/world/americas/brazil-bans-telegram.html

07:26 TR Bot; Brazil Bans Telegram Over Disinformation Concerns - The New York Times

07:26 matey; just his string of luck with regards to the fsf

07:26 leah; yeah but

07:26 leah; you said he feels like something on a regular basis

07:26 leah; feels like what?

07:26 matey; leah: today i sold fsf merchandise accidentally

07:26 leah; and what relation does that have with this chat

07:27 TR News; html

07:27 matey; then i helped patch things up between one of my favourite people and least favourite people

07:27 TR News; "Disinformation in wartime is as old as war itself, but today war unfolds in the age of social media and digital diplomacy." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/20/world/asia/russia-putin-propaganda-media.html

07:27 Alternative link; Cloudflare: nytimes.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/20/world/asia/russia-putin-propaganda-media.html

07:27 TR Bot; The Lies Putin Tells to Justify Russias War on Ukraine - The New York Times

07:27 leah; idk lxo seems to still have some clout at the fsf

07:27 leah; he's on teh voting members list

07:27 matey; and to top it off i helped roy fix a bug on his website

07:27 TR News; "The word that song was censored for was earthquake. And it is that on September 19, 1985 a strong telluric movement had hit the capital of the country, leaving a bad memory in the population." ttps://www.parisbeacon.com/63977/

07:27 matey; this is a fuck-awful day

07:28 leah; why?

07:28 matey; because its not going how i want

07:28 matey; however, there were some high points

07:28 leah; sounds like every day of my life

07:28 leah; you'll get used to it

07:28 matey; the part about free hardware just about makes up for the rest

07:28 schestowitz; lxo https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/the-singularity-the-matrix-and-the-terminator-86e0/

07:28 TR Bot; The Singularity, the Matrix, and the Terminator GNU MediaGoblin

07:29 matey; <leah> sounds like every day of my life <- im really sorry

07:29 leah; no need to be sorry

07:29 leah; it's true of most people

07:29 leah; it's actually a good thing

07:29 matey; /me has been waiting for this free hardware stuff for a few years now

07:29 leah; when you think about it

07:29 matey; because what doesnt kill you makes terrible pop anthems?

07:30 leah; if you day went exactly how you want, all the time, your life would be meaningless

07:30 matey; thats true

07:30 leah; because you'd be able to predict every single day

07:30 TR News; GDPR would be worthless if not enforced https://www.newscientist.com/article/2312820-nearly-all-websites-may-breach-gdpr-legislation-around-data-usage/ newscientist paywall http://techrights.org/2021/06/10/edps-gdpr-epo-impunity/

07:30 Alternative link; Cloudflare: newscientist.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.newscientist.com/article/2312820-nearly-all-websites-may-breach-gdpr-legislation-around-data-usage/

07:30 TR Bot; GDPR legislation around data usage may be breached by nearly all websites | New Scientist

07:30 TR Bot; The European Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) Needs to Get Its Act Together on the EPOs GDPR Violations | Techrights

07:30 matey; because what doesnt kill you makes terrible pop anthems? <- this is recursive

07:31 matey; unless the terrible pop anthems actually kill you

07:32 matey; "i survived the katy perry years"

07:32 mjg59_; leah: Hey, thanks! Please do feel free to continue to disagree with me

07:32 TR News; "The operator of MP3Juices and YTMP3, two of the best-known YouTube downloaders, is taking action to protect these valuable brands" https://torrentfreak.com/youtube-rippers-ask-google-to-remove-copycats-from-the-search-results-220320/

07:32 Alternative link; Cloudflare: torrentfreak.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://torrentfreak.com/youtube-rippers-ask-google-to-remove-copycats-from-the-search-results-220320/

07:32 TR Bot; Rippers Ask Google to Remove 'Copycats' From Search Results * TorrentFreak

07:34 TR News; HYPE. https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/20/riding-blockchain-can-tech-be-revolutionary

07:34 Alternative link; Cloudflare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/20/riding-blockchain-can-tech-be-revolutionary

07:34 TR Bot; Opinion | Riding the Blockchain: Can Tech Be Revolutionary? | Alexandria Shaner

07:34 mjg59_; leah: Not all my ideas are good, and having people in the free software community disagree with me helps me figure out whether they're good or not

07:35 TR News; "he biggest business in America is stealing and defrauding the federal government, Uncle Sam, and you the taxpayers. In terms of sheer stolen dollars, the total amount is greater than the annual sales of Amazon and Walmart over the past two years." https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/20/commercial-defrauding-uncle-sam-biggest-booming-business

07:35 Alternative link; Cloudflare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/20/commercial-defrauding-uncle-sam-biggest-booming-business

07:35 TR Bot; Opinion | Commercial Defrauding of Uncle SamBiggest Booming Business | Ralph Nader

07:36 leah; mjg59_: i still do disagree with you, on a lot of things

07:36 leah; i merely no longer dislike you. you're now in my neutral list

07:36 leah; good day

07:36 leah; (i really do have things to be doing)

07:37 leah; matey: nuclear

07:37 leah; :P

07:37 matey; i felt it

07:37 TR News; Is tinnitus a rare side effect of Covid vaccines? https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/tinnitus-rare-side-effect-covid-vaccines-rcna20613

07:37 TR Bot; Is tinnitus a rare side effect of Covid vaccines?

07:37 leah; sometimes, nuclear implosions happen

07:37 matey; /me survived katy perry too

07:38 matey; but free hardware ftw

07:38 leah; can you survive this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOWSp4KXwAArsvm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

07:38 leah; can you survive this level of cuteness

07:38 leah; that's the bootsplash screen in osboot. i made it recently, based on the logo (i did not make the logo itself)

07:39 matey; i hope youre comfortable having the worlds cutest free software logo

07:39 leah; i wanted it to have a more "hello kitty" vibe but my graphics guy came up with this instead

07:39 leah; actually, he made that chip logo with >_

07:39 matey; no i see the hjello kitty in it

07:39 leah; intending for it to be like, the standard terminal icon

07:39 matey; its very sanrio

07:39 leah; you know >_ in terminal emulators. on the icon for them

07:39 matey; they might even sue

07:39 matey; they wont win of course

07:39 XRevan86; leah: Feels like Ubuntu.

07:40 leah; i suggested: make it eric cartman face instead

07:40 leah; and it Just Works

07:40 matey; bite your fucking tongue xrevan

07:40 *XRevan86 refuses.

07:40 matey; figures

07:40 leah; matey: i wasn't insulted

07:40 matey; i wasnt either

07:40 matey; just having fun

07:40 leah; in fact, i thought so too

07:40 leah; that it looks ubuntu-ish

07:40 leah; because purple

07:41 matey; yeah but the colours arent really part of the logo

07:41 leah; but yeah, this is an illegal level of cuteness

07:41 matey; also i agree that with the purple...

07:41 leah; i'm going to be arrested by the bureaucrats

07:41 matey; what i like best about it really

07:41 matey; is that its the cutest free software logo ever

07:41 TR News; "The Chinese city of Shenzhen widely billed as the tech manufacturing capital of the world has relaxed its COVID-19 restrictions in ways the city government expects will allow industrial production to resume." https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/shenzhen_relaxes_covid_restrictions/

07:41 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/shenzhen_relaxes_covid_restrictions/

07:41 TR Bot; China's tech hub restarts production despite COVID The Register

07:42 matey; but behind that cuteness isnt something terrible, but something that represents technical prowess

07:42 matey; and reasonable intentions

07:42 matey; for a change...

07:42 leah; yeah well

07:42 leah; that logo

07:42 leah; is the feeling you get

07:42 leah; when trying to flash osboot

07:42 matey; heh

07:45 TR News; To go along with hideous levels of inflation, Walmart gives Walmart+ to employees instead of a cost of living adjustment. https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/03/21/to-go-along-with-hideous-levels-of-inflation-walmart-gives-walmart-to-employees-instead-of-a-cost-of-living-adjustment/

07:45 TR Bot; To go along with hideous levels of inflation, Walmart gives Walmart+ to employees instead of a cost of living adjustment. BaronHK's Rants

07:45 matey; /me wants to flash osboot just for the logo

07:45 matey; yes that is stupid

07:45 matey; but it should be understandable

07:46 leah; yep, that's precisely why i commissioned it

07:46 matey; who created it?

07:46 leah; without even realizing. i woke up one day and someone had simply submitted it

07:46 matey; wow, nice

07:46 leah; this guy: https://gitlab.com/ioanm

07:46 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gitlab.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://gitlab.com/ioanm

07:46 TR Bot; Moldovan GitLab

07:46 leah; he made it

07:46 matey; no one i know then

07:47 TR News; Linux Kernel 5.17 Brings New Hardware Support And Steam Deck Improvements http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162775#comment-33127

07:47 *XRevan86 refused to look at the Skulls logo and made https://i.ibb.co/mChdKnJ/bootsplash.png a few years back.

07:47 leah; he came out of nowhere, and in an act of sheer terrorism, made this illegally cute logo

07:47 matey; does osboot support openbsd yet?

07:47 leah; and i merged it

07:47 leah; :)

07:47 TR Bot; Linux Kernel 5.17 Officially Released, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines

07:47 leah; matey: other way around

07:47 TR News; LibrePlanet: "Living Liberation" Day two retrospective, and motivation for freedom Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162788

07:47 leah; but yes, you can boot openbsd

07:47 matey; sweeeeeeet

07:47 TR Bot; LibrePlanet: "Living Liberation" Day two retrospective, and motivation for freedom | Tux Machines

07:48 matey; this illegally cute logo <- it might be so cute it violates the code of conduct

07:48 leah; what code of conduct?

07:48 matey; THE code of conduct

07:48 matey; /me has no idea

07:48 leah; ?

07:48 leah; i don't have a CoC in any of my projects

07:48 matey; bonus

07:48 leah; people seem to just behave sensibly, so i don't feel the need

07:49 leah; human decency is common sense

07:49 matey; voltaire would protest

07:49 leah; my code of conduct is the moral values that my mother instilled in me

07:49 matey; nice

07:50 leah; and someone elses will have instilled different values in them. it takes all sorts to make a world

07:51 TR News; Mabox Linux - Beautiful Arch Linux with Openbox [Review] Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162789

07:51 TR Bot; Mabox Linux - Beautiful Arch Linux with Openbox [Review] | Tux Machines

07:52 matey; it always did before

07:53 TR News; 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: March 20th, 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162790

07:53 TR Bot; 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: March 20th, 2022 | Tux Machines

07:54 leah; matey: i publicly requested a logo last year

07:54 leah; and then

07:54 matey; voil

07:54 matey; a

07:54 leah; one person soon responded, but he was a complete nutcase and though he made an excellent logo, i didn't want to have to thank him

07:54 leah; so i rejected it

07:54 leah; that was last year

07:55 leah; then the other guy i linked, came to irc a few days ago, and showed me what he had made

07:55 matey; i publically requested a federated free software/free hardware federation in 2018

07:55 leah; his logo has >_ not >_<

07:55 leah; originally it was >_

07:55 matey; federated federation! (the only kind)

07:55 leah; i simply suggested: make it >_<

07:55 matey; so i can relate

07:55 leah; and it was done

07:56 leah; matey: if someone comes up with a good idea, someone else already did

07:56 matey; typically yes

07:56 leah; the one who gets the gold is the one who has the courage to run with it

07:56 matey; oh i dont care about the gold

07:56 matey; i want a federation

07:57 leah; there is always gold

07:57 matey; i knew it would have to be pulled off by someone with the right influence

07:57 leah; gold just means, reward or recognition of some kind

07:57 matey; the reward is that the federation exists

8 AM, March 21

08:01 schestowitz; MinceR: gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D536.jpg

08:01 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 26.41 k/sec., IPFS upstream 33.70 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.85

08:02 TR News; "An easy to setup server for the XMPP chat protocol. I'm the only user on it right now but it's served me well in talking to folks on other servers." gemini://moddedbear.xyz/logs/2022-03-20-how-to-get-into-self-hosting.gmi

08:04 TR News; "Please pull hwmon updates for Linux v5.18 from signed tag" https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220320231317.2171300-1-linux@roeck-us.net/

08:04 TR Bot; [GIT PULL] hwmon updates for v5.18 - Guenter Roeck

08:06 *oarion7 has quit (Quit: Running IRC on a charmed medieval abacus.)

08:07 *CrystalMath (~coderain@932arfbra7k66.irc) has joined #techrights

08:10 *inky (~inky@5.77.187.22) has joined #techrights

08:11 TR News; "(Sponsored)" :/ https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/03/21/ai-thinker-ra-08-lorawan-module-features-asr6601-chip/ see https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/03/21/ai-thinker-ra-08-lorawan-module-features-asr6601-chip/

08:11 Alternative link; Cloudflare: cnx-software.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/03/21/ai-thinker-ra-08-lorawan-module-features-asr6601-chip/

08:11 TR Bot; Ai-Thinker Ra-08 LoRaWAN module features ASR6601 chip (Sponsored) - CNX Software

08:12 TR News; "Given Poland's interests and the uncertainty of a true link between the vaccine and tinnitus not to mention a strong anti-vaccine movement why would he publicize his condition and suspicion that a vaccine could be involved?" https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/tinnitus-rare-side-effect-covid-vaccines-rcna20613

08:12 TR Bot; Is tinnitus a rare side effect of Covid vaccines?

08:12 *inky_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

08:21 leah; anyway yeah, throwing code over the wall and putting it under gpl doesn't automatically make it actually free in practise

08:21 leah; it needs to actually be readable, maintainable and usable

08:21 TR News; Twitter: Were Actually a News Site, Follow These Tweets and Twits | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/ukraine-in-twitter/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/ukraine-in-twitter/

08:21 TR Bot; Twitter: Were Actually a News Site, Follow These Tweets and Twits | Techrights

08:22 leah; i can name plenty of software, copyleft or not, that i describe in the following way:

08:22 leah; binary blob, masquerading as source code

08:22 leah; this is a level of nuance that fsf people miss

08:22 leah; for example, if someone were to ship a machine that had tianocore on it, with source code, fsf would regard that machine as "libre"

08:22 leah; i wouldn't

08:23 leah; tianocore is a piece of shit

08:23 leah; try auditing any of it

08:23 leah; source code needs to actually be a usable reference for it to be considered free, in my book, regardless of what free license it uses

08:24 leah; i need to be able to easily show a section of it to someone, and have that person understand it, or easily be able to

08:24 leah; otherwise, what's the point. if only 1-2 people understands it

08:24 leah; another example is amd's agesa codebase in coreboot, back when they were released source code

08:24 leah; the code is unusable, and coreboot later threw most of it out

08:24 leah; (without replacing it)

08:25 leah; if you or a small group of people can't feasibly fork the whole thing, then how can you say it's free? if you can't actually do it, in practise

08:26 leah; most people just basically look at the license and then look whether it includes .c files, or just .o files

08:26 leah; you must look deeper

08:26 leah; i have higher standards for what i consider "free"

08:27 leah; it's only free in practise if you can actually make use of it in a reasonable way

08:27 leah; a lot of people don't get that

08:27 matey; <leah> binary blob, masquerading as source code <- i call it free in license only

08:27 leah; and almost everything the companies push is garbage, whether they release the source code or not

08:27 leah; if they release the code, that's them showing their shame

08:28 matey; but ive also described it as a blob in source code form

08:28 leah; the openbsd position is better:

08:28 leah; specifications, not code

08:28 leah; they demand specs

08:28 leah; and then they write all the code themselves

08:28 leah; and they do it well

08:28 matey; if you or a small group of people can't feasibly fork the whole thing <- this is why i say linux (and too often gnu) are unforkable

08:28 matey; once its less trouble to rewrite than clean up

08:28 matey; its not forkable

08:29 leah; linux is non-free, by my standard

08:29 matey; i mean if rewriting it is easier-- thats the problem with non-free software!

08:29 matey; <leah> linux is non-free, by my standard <- no freedom 3

08:29 matey; note that someone demanded an exception to this the other day, which i have not ENTIRELY discounted

08:29 leah; if you want to know what i mean by "blob masquerading as code"

08:29 leah; download:

08:29 leah; gnu grub

08:29 leah; or

08:29 leah; gnu hello

08:29 matey; gnu gnub <- yes

08:30 leah; arguably gcc aswell

08:30 matey; its becoming that way

08:30 leah; (llvm is cleaner)

08:30 matey; gcc is slightly different because you COULD fork an older version and it MIGHT be worthwhile to do so

08:30 matey; i dont think linux has that (really it doesnt)

08:30 matey; (just use a bsd kernel)

08:31 matey; hurd was a bsd kernel! gnu was originally going to use a bsd kernel

08:31 matey; now theyre like no, its not gpl

08:31 matey; ffs, do they think hurd was based on a gpl-licensed kernel?

08:31 leah; actually

08:31 leah; damien zammit has been doing a lot of nice work on hurd over the last year or so

08:31 leah; and he's been incorporating netbsd drivers in hurd

08:31 matey; if he can throw thiebalt under the bus ill consider hurd

08:31 leah; due to its rump kernel design, that's legally possible

08:32 leah; the kernel in grub is really nice btw

08:32 leah; yes, grub has a kernel

08:33 matey; theres a kernel in...

08:33 leah; it's actually a tiny os with a shell, running programs

08:33 matey; yeah when the config is borked

08:33 matey; you get a shell

08:33 matey; it makes sense, i never considered that it was a kernel

08:33 leah; there is always a shell

08:33 TR News; Links 21/3/2022: LibrePlanet Closes | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/libreplanet-closes/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/libreplanet-closes/

08:33 leah; that screen you see for your config, is just a program interpreting your config, and displaying a menu

08:33 TR Bot; Links 21/3/2022: LibrePlanet Closes | Techrights

08:34 leah; it's basically an interactive subset of bash

08:34 matey; there is always a shell <- until we can communicate telepathically with the bus, its useful

08:34 leah; with a nice menu system

08:34 leah; grub has a lot of features that almost nobody uses

08:34 leah; for example, you can directly write intel registers

08:35 leah; for example

08:35 leah; it has networking support

08:35 leah; you can load a kernel over tftp with grub

08:35 leah; did you know that?

08:35 matey; gurb and hurd are both hopelessly tied to intel anyway-- tell me im wrong, you might know

08:35 leah; you're wrong

08:35 TR News; Proprietary Software Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162791

08:35 TR Bot; Proprietary Software Leftovers | Tux Machines

08:35 leah; it runs on many platforms

08:35 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162792

08:35 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines

08:35 matey; you can load a kernel over tftp with grub <- funnily enough daemonfc mentioned this yesterday, regarding vxworks

08:35 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162793

08:35 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

08:35 matey; i wonder if vxworks was a ripoff too

08:35 leah; grub also runs bare metal on arm now

08:36 leah; also uefi arm, via uboot

08:36 matey; ok so grub isnt necessarily tied to intel

08:36 leah; it's decidedly not

08:36 leah; in fact, that was one of the first things they did with grub2

08:36 matey; what about hurd? any prayer of getting it onto other platforms?

08:36 leah; separating i386-pc stuff from generic stuff

08:36 leah; and porting it to more platforms

08:36 matey; first time ive heard someone tell me a GOOD reason for grub 2

08:37 leah; as far as i know, hurd is pretty i386-centric

08:37 leah; and i do mean: i386

08:37 matey; yeah

08:37 matey; that will be its downfall

08:37 leah; *3*86

08:37 leah; emphasis on 3

08:37 matey; understood

08:37 matey; with all the limitations thereof

08:37 leah; damien has changed that

08:37 matey; has he

08:37 leah; did you know: you can boot and use hurd now, on an x200

08:37 matey; i did not

08:37 leah; i don't document it on libreboot.org

08:37 leah; but you can

08:38 leah; ping damo22 about it on libera irc

08:38 leah; (that's damien)

08:38 matey; we are actually talking more about free software than daemonfc can talk about blacks and mandy

08:38 matey; guinness book here we come

08:38 leah; i saw an interesting video about microkernels recently

08:39 leah; let me see if i can find it

08:39 *darwin (~darwin@7d3n498busjrn.irc) has joined #techrights

08:39 matey; was it produced on 8mm film?

08:39 leah; ok well, look up "hubris kernel" by 0xide

08:39 matey; will do

08:40 matey; love the name

08:40 leah; and here is the video:

08:40 leah; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cypmufnPfLw

08:40 TR Bot; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=cypmufnPfLw

08:40 TR Bot; yewtu.be | Twitter Space 12/13/2021 -- The Pragmatism of Hubris - Invidious

08:40 matey; awesome, thanks

08:40 leah; 2000 sloc

08:41 leah; that's what they say, in the video

08:41 matey; unreal

08:41 leah; i haven't looked at the software itself, i've only read about it and watched that video

08:41 leah; tiny, tiny kernel

08:41 matey; asm or c?

08:41 leah; haven't checked

08:41 matey; ill do it

08:41 leah; if it's 2000, probably not asm

08:42 leah; they mention C in the video

08:42 leah; though

08:42 leah; i think they use rust?

08:42 leah; idk, feel free to look into it yourself

08:42 matey; aww no

08:42 leah; i need to... get back to the thing i should have been doing for the last 12 hours

08:42 matey; good luck

08:42 leah; that irc has been distracting me from

08:42 matey; yeah but

08:42 matey; it was really cool, thank you

08:42 leah; you know the jealous girlfriend meme?

08:42 matey; yeah ive used it

08:42 leah; well, i think they called it the distracted boyfriend meme

08:43 matey; yes thats the one

08:43 leah; yeah i'm like that

08:43 leah; real work is the girlfriend

08:43 *zedomatic (~zedomatic@zgwesimerdb6c.irc) has joined #techrights

08:43 leah; irc is the hot lady

08:43 matey; heh

08:43 leah; and i'm the distracted one

08:43 matey; cheers

08:43 leah; ;)

08:43 leah; see you later

08:44 leah; i'm definitely rebooking a few shipments for tomorrow probably

08:44 leah; every friday, i'm like: weekend! more time to do work

08:44 leah; also friday, and weekend: everyone on irc pings me

08:44 leah; monday: zero work performed during weekend

08:44 leah; always zero

08:44 matey; you should move your week 2 or 3 days forward

08:44 matey; like daylight savings

08:44 matey; its wednesday!

08:44 leah; i need to delete weechat

08:45 leah; and never come back to irc

08:45 matey; that might also work

08:45 leah; and just keep myself logged in with a bouncer

08:45 leah; that auto-responds with an AI

08:45 leah; that i still get distracted writing for the next 6 months

08:45 matey; vrms, meet vleah

08:45 leah; so you see my problem

08:45 matey; yeah its recursive

08:45 leah; my time is cake

08:45 matey; so youre like the distracted boyfriend meme

08:45 leah; and i get none of it

08:46 matey; but off into the distance like an old journey music video (i think queen as well)

08:46 TR News; "Why GNOME 42 is the release weve all been waiting for. Plus, we attempt to install Linux on an M1 MacBook live on the show." https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/147962/it-went-real-bad-linux-unplugged-450/

08:46 Alternative link; Cloudflare: jupiterbroadcasting.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/147962/it-went-real-bad-linux-unplugged-450/

08:46 TR Bot; It Went Real Bad | LINUX Unplugged 450 | Jupiter Broadcasting

08:46 matey; leah, personal question

08:46 matey; any autism spectrum?

08:46 matey; little bit?

08:47 matey; you can ignore that

08:47 matey; only curious

08:49 matey; /me isnt sure it doesnt apply a little bit to all geniuses (in a loose and undiagnosable, non-medical-industrial way) anyway

08:49 TR News; My favorite Linux top command options Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162794

08:49 TR Bot; My favorite Linux top command options | Tux Machines

08:49 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162795

08:49 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

08:50 matey; condition: genius; side effects: you already know

08:50 TR News; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Google Keep Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162796

08:50 TR Bot; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Google Keep | Tux Machines

08:51 TR News; Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) 5 is Here with Debian 11 Bullseye http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162666#comment-33128

08:51 TR Bot; LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) 5 Elsie Is Now Available for Download | Tux Machines

08:53 leah; matey: definitely autistic spectrum. with a touch of anti-social ;)

08:53 matey; cheers

08:53 leah; and i've now answered emails

08:54 leah; my daily worklist is very strict. and i've a pile of machines that just need packing. i'll go afk now and do that

08:54 leah; matey: i'm diagnosed as autistic

08:54 leah; nhs diagnosis in the uk. i was diagnosed as an adult, and went there on a whim just to confirm. the lady said i'm "very clearly" autistic

08:54 matey; dont take it the wrong way if i feel a little like i talked to rms today

08:54 matey; its not 1:1 the same

08:54 leah; the point is well taken, and i'm not insulted

08:55 leah; i'm honoured that you would compare me to him

08:55 matey; and i dont mean because youre both on the spectrum either

08:55 matey; well i mean it

08:55 matey; we need more people like him

08:55 leah; i've expressed major disagreement with his positions, in a modern context

08:55 matey; i can count them on my hand right now

08:55 leah; however, rms was my main inspiration in early days

08:55 leah; and i still greatly respect him

08:55 matey; if rms knew the things you did-- and he knows plenty, but different area

08:55 matey; he would be VERY frustrated with his positions (that he has now)

08:55 leah; matey: people have said the same, before

08:56 TR News; LibrePlanet 2019 photo https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/computer-components-closeup/

08:56 TR Bot; Computer components closeup GNU MediaGoblin

08:56 leah; my brainwave patterns are very similar to his. we think similarly, but we have differing positions in key areas

08:56 matey; yeah but

08:56 matey; this is something ive been weighing, carefully, for quite a while

08:56 matey; and i was on the fence

08:56 matey; but im pretty confident about it now

08:56 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

08:56 matey; we need more of him

08:56 matey; ive got another one im thinking of too

08:57 leah; respect the mission, not the man

08:57 matey; well i respect both

08:57 leah; i say that about myself too

08:57 matey; but i wont kiss anyones arse for being wrong

08:57 leah; (though i'm not a man)

08:57 matey; not even a hero

08:57 leah; btw

08:57 leah; rms has never said he's autistic

08:58 leah; but he does show clear signs of autism

08:58 matey; no, i read his bio-- i know what he said

08:58 matey; if rms isnt autistic they might as well throw asd out an start over

08:58 leah; i think what you've picked up on is that rms is a very "forceful" person

08:58 matey; no, i know more about autism than stereotypes

08:58 matey; but he is very stubborn, thats a fact

08:59 leah; i think you've contributed a lot to today's discussions also

08:59 leah; you have a keen intellect and an ability to get to the heart of the matter

08:59 matey; i am flattered

9 AM, March 21

09:00 matey; truly

09:00 leah; anyway

09:00 leah; laters

09:00 matey; to work!

09:00 leah; to bed

09:00 matey; fair enough

09:00 matey; o/

09:01 leah; just gonna pack stuff i did on friday night

09:01 leah; my roommate will answer the door when ups comes

09:01 TR News; Linux 5.17 release Main changes, Arm, RISC-V, and MIPS architectures http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162775#comment-33130

09:01 TR Bot; Linux Kernel 5.17 Officially Released, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines

09:01 leah; got like 3 not done. 10 that are done. just gonna pack and label them now. then i will nap

09:01 matey; what are the odds that osboot bricks my asus mobo from a few years ago

09:01 matey; because i dont know wtf im doing

09:01 leah; 100%, unless it's supported by coreboot

09:02 leah; if supported, just add it to osboot

09:02 matey; good to know

09:02 leah; see: https://osboot.org/docs/maintain/

09:02 TR Bot; osboot osbmk maintenance manual

09:02 matey; its too ambitious for me to try... real soon

09:02 leah; if coreboot supports it, it's easy to just add a config to the osboot build system, named osbmk

09:02 leah; that documented i linked explains how

09:02 matey; thank you

09:02 leah; osboot is to coreboot what alpine is to linux:

09:02 leah; a distribution

09:02 leah; in this case, written in bash

09:02 matey; cool

09:02 leah; for reals

09:02 leah; have fun!

09:02 matey; o/

09:03 leah; like most of the work on osboot/libreboot is integration and automation

09:03 leah; it's an automated build system around coreboot, grub, seabios etc

09:03 matey; /me does this too, all the time

09:03 leah; that just packs everything together in a boringly uniform way

09:03 leah; with an illegally cute logo added on top

09:04 leah; that logo is a killer

09:04 leah; killer of gloom

09:04 matey; its a killer feature

09:04 leah; anyone who looks at it will feel better

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09:04 matey; i want it on my screen

09:04 matey; i mean not as a jpg

09:04 leah; it's a png

09:04 matey; it was on my screen earlier

09:04 matey; well if you png encoded that photo that was silly

09:04 matey; but i know you mean in the distribution

09:04 *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot) has joined #techrights

09:04 leah; one moment

09:05 leah; https://av.osboot.org/logo/

09:05 TR Bot; Index of /logo/

09:05 leah; here you go

09:05 matey; thank you

09:05 leah; it's there. have fun!

09:05 matey; night

09:05 leah; print it and plasticize it. and epoxy it to your car, as a bumper sticker

09:05 matey; ill tattoo it on my butt

09:05 leah; well i wouldn't go that far

09:06 matey; i thought about doing that with debian, im glad i didnt

09:06 leah; i'll make a sticker design based off it

09:06 matey; i wouldve gone for the shoulder though

09:06 leah; and take it to the printers. there's a good print shop in my town

09:06 leah; gonna make some cute stickers

09:06 matey; theres one here too

09:06 leah; that logo is a virus for your brin

09:06 leah; for your brain*

09:06 leah; s/brin/brain

09:06 leah; it gets in your brain, and never leaves

09:06 leah; you will remember it forever

09:07 matey; see it when you close your eyes

09:07 leah; i wanna make an ascii version

09:07 TR News; To Pay or Not to Pay? That is the Ransomware question | Pen Test Partners https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/to-pay-or-not-to-pay-that-is-the-ransomware-question/ http://techrights.org/2021/05/02/ransomware-task-force/

09:07 Alternative link; Cloudflare: pentestpartners.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/to-pay-or-not-to-pay-that-is-the-ransomware-question/

09:07 TR Bot; To Pay or Not to Pay? That is the Ransomware question | Pen Test Partners

09:07 TR Bot; Microsoft-Centric Ransomware Task Force | Techrights

09:07 leah; osboot has text mode support

09:07 leah; text mode start up

09:07 leah; 80x50 characters

09:07 leah; i wanna make a purple coloured text mode console

09:07 leah; with grey characters. with that logo

09:07 leah; ascii-style

09:07 matey; 80x50 you can just use background colour

09:07 leah; and put it on a crt monitor

09:08 matey; you dont even need characters per se

09:08 leah; hooked up to an x200

09:08 leah; for meme purposes

09:08 leah; i'm going to do it

09:08 leah; you can't stop me :P

09:08 matey; ill try to stop you a little, just so you can fight it

09:09 TR News; Asahi Linux reaches 'very early Alpha' http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162724#comment-33131

09:09 TR Bot; The first Asahi Linux Alpha Release is here! | Tux Machines

09:09 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162797

09:09 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines

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09:11 *CrystalMath (~coderain@932arfbra7k66.irc) has joined #techrights

09:11 TR News; ICBM Red Hat is pushing Microsoft https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2022/03/21/hello-podman-using-net see http://techrights.org/2022/03/16/meme-ibm-fsf-bad-microsoft-good/

09:11 TR Bot; Hello Podman using .NET | Red Hat Developer

09:11 TR Bot; [Meme] IBM: FSF Bad, Microsoft Good | Techrights

09:12 TR News; Filipe Rosset: Fedora rawhide fixed bugs 2021/10 https://ro7bit.wordpress.com/2022/03/21/fedora-rawhide-fixed-bugs-2021-10/

09:12 TR Bot; Fedora rawhide fixed bugs 2021/10 ::: ro7bit :::

09:13 TR News; Fedora Workstations State of Gaming - A Case Study of Control (2019) - Fedora Magazine https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-workstations-state-of-gaming/

09:13 TR Bot; Fedora Workstation's State of Gaming - A Case Study of Control (2019) - Fedora Magazine

09:14 TR News; ICBM keeps pushing complexity as "transformation" https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/3/digital-transformation-10-reasons-your-it-initiatives-fail

09:14 TR Bot; Digital transformation: 10 reasons your IT initiatives fail | The Enterprisers Project

09:14 TR News; "Its new or newer, at least in terms of containerization, Kubernetes, infrastructure as code, security automation, robotic process automation (RPA), and the vast landscape of cloud-native tooling." BUZZWORD SALAD. https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/3/advance-automation-journey-tips

09:14 TR Bot; Automation: 5 expert tips to advance your journey | The Enterprisers Project

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09:16 TR News; Documentation PRs Welcome - Why Docs Are Not A Beginner Friendly Task https://fy.blackhats.net.au/blog/html/2022/03/15/documentation_pr_s_welcome_why_docs_are_not_a_beginner_friendly_task.html

09:16 TR Bot; reports incompatible or unsupported protocol version. ( status 0 @ https://fy.blackhats.net.au/blog/html/2022/03/15/documentation_pr_s_welcome_why_docs_are_not_a_beginner_friendly_task.html )

09:20 TR News; "It would be foolish to say that Matthew Miller or Red Hat ordered these trolls to engage like this. On the other hand, this campaign of harassment did not arise spontaneously. Red Hat Linux is one of the oldest and most respected Linux distributions." https://danielpocock.com/red-hat-linux-harassment-war-graves/

09:20 TR Bot; Red Hat, Linux, Harassment and War Graves

09:24 TR News; #HowTo Install Linux Kernel 5.17 on Ubuntu 21.10 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162798

09:24 TR Bot; How to Install Linux Kernel 5.17 on Ubuntu 21.10 | Tux Machines

09:25 TR News; IBM/Red Hat/Fedora Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162799

09:25 TR Bot; IBM/Red Hat/Fedora Leftovers | Tux Machines

09:27 TR News; How to Install Linux Kernel 5.17 on Ubuntu / Linux Mint http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162798#comment-33132

09:27 TR Bot; How to Install Linux Kernel 5.17 on Ubuntu 21.10 | Tux Machines

09:30 TR News; i hate dealing with proprietary software gemini://nytpu.com/gemlog/2020-11-22.gmi

09:31 TR News; LibrePlanet 2022: The Net beyond the web https://kelar.org/~bandali/talks/libreplanet-2022-net-beyond-web.txt gopher://kelar.org/0/~bandali/talks/libreplanet-2022-net-beyond-web.txt

09:38 TR News; ICBM spin for unstable release https://opensource.com/article/22/3/upstream-first-or-path-lifting-property-covering-space

09:38 TR Bot; first or the path lifting property of a covering space | Opensource.com

09:38 TR News; 20+ years of Emacs Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162800

09:39 TR Bot; 20+ years of Emacs | Tux Machines

09:39 TR News; "Our story this week comes from "Ivor" courtesy of his experience with punched cards and the IBM System/360 Model 40." https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/who_me/

09:39 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/who_me/

09:39 TR Bot; Potty-mouthed System/360 fix revealed to all and sundry The Register

09:43 TR News; "Working for a famous tech company, I get asked a lot "Why don't you use technology X?" X may be an application, programming language, operating system, hypervisor, processor, or tool." https://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2022-03-19/why-dont-you-use.html

09:43 TR Bot; Why Don't You Use ...

09:45 TR News; External dual-head is better and cheaper https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/asus_zenbook_pro_duo_ux582_review/ "The same job in an Ubuntu VM under VMware Workstation required 7:54 to finish the job"

09:45 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/asus_zenbook_pro_duo_ux582_review/

09:45 TR Bot; Review: ASUS dual-screen laptop The Register

09:45 TR News; Gobby - a Collaborative Text Editor for Ubuntu Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162801

09:45 TR Bot; Gobby - a Collaborative Text Editor for Ubuntu Linux | Tux Machines

09:47 TR News; "Indian IT services giant HCL Technologies has told India's Labour Commissioner that its controversial decision to recover bonuses paid to staff who later resigned was not illegal." https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/hcl_defends_bonus_clawbacks/ http://techrights.org/2009/04/10/microsoft-sails-overseas/ https://techrights.org/2008/04/13/cult-of-get-then-while-young/

09:47 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/hcl_defends_bonus_clawbacks/

09:47 TR Bot; HCL responds to Indias labor office regarding bonus clawbac The Register

09:47 TR Bot; Microsoft Finds Cost-Cutting Measures: Moves Overseas | Techrights

09:47 TR Bot; Microsoft Reaches Out to Children and Young Adults Again | Techrights

09:49 TR News; 2.5 weeks ago I quit Twitter; if I log in (not even posting anything), this is what I get http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/ukraine-in-twitter/

09:49 TR Bot; Twitter: Were Actually a News Site, Follow These Tweets and Twits | Techrights

09:49 TR News; The EPO strike is now 25 hours away; workers of the EPO should prioritise solidarity over short-term safety (blind obedience) as the future of Europe (and of science in general) is at stake http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/joining-epo-strike/

09:49 TR Bot; [Meme] Join the EPO Strike | Techrights

09:50 TR News; As we expected throughout this past week, not a single site has mentioned the EPOs strike except SUEPO and the European Federation of Public Service Unions (EPSU) and its part of a long-lasting pattern of what were calling the EPO Media Blackout http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-patent-distortion-part-6/

09:50 TR Bot; The Patent Distortion: 7 Days of News and Blogs, Not a Single Mention of EPO Affairs | Techrights

09:53 schestowitz; does anyone know when fsf releases libreplanet videos?

09:54 schestowitz; https://framatube.org/a/fsf/videos

09:54 TR Bot; Free Software Foundation - Framatube

09:54 schestowitz; 2021

09:55 schestowitz; https://framatube.org/w/vxfRTW1mCXAm4yr7oK3ToS

09:55 TR Bot; FS Awards Ceremony - Framatube

09:55 schestowitz; 11 months, 13 views

09:55 schestowitz; a view a month for SFC

09:55 TR News; fscrypt updates for 5.18 https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/YjgEC8Nw9PDmdY0O@sol.localdomain/

09:55 TR Bot; [GIT PULL] fscrypt updates for 5.18 - Eric Biggers

09:58 TR News; You can use Markdown to format your post

09:58 TR News; Linux 5.17 is out now with new AMD P-State driver http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162775#comment-33134

09:58 TR Bot; Linux Kernel 5.17 Officially Released, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines

09:59 TR News; Delete Windows. It harms your brain. https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/file_explorer_fiasco_column/

09:59 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/file_explorer_fiasco_column/

09:59 TR Bot; File Explorer fiasco: Why did they build it then? The Register

10 AM, March 21

10:03 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162802

10:03 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

10:03 TR News; Here's the first Linux distro made for Apple M1 systems http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162724#comment-33135

10:03 TR Bot; The first Asahi Linux Alpha Release is here! | Tux Machines

10:06 TR News; 20 Open-source, free LaTeX and TeX editors and IDEs for Windows, Linux, macOS, and the Web. Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162803

10:06 TR Bot; 20 Open-source, free LaTeX and TeX editors and IDEs for Windows, Linux, macOS, and the Web. | Tux Machines

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10:08 TR News; "The Western world is debating whether permitting Putin to retain some of the territory he has seized would "be like the 1938 appeasement of Hitler by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain," Barrett said." https://text.npr.org/1086709135

10:08 TR Bot; The war in Ukraine has reintroduced these words and phrases into our vocabulary

10:08 Alternative link; Cloudflare: npr.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://text.npr.org/1086709135

10:08 schestowitz; MinceR: this mentions "Putler"

10:09 schestowitz; where did you first see it?

10:11 *matey (~matey@93d8qk2xdyaxe.irc) has joined #techrights

10:12 TR News; Linux Mint Debian Edition 5 is out now http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162724#comment-33137

10:12 TR Bot; The first Asahi Linux Alpha Release is here! | Tux Machines

10:15 TR News; "how websites looked back then, fast-forwarding to the present day and the sad current state of the web, and some possibilities on where we could go from here if we would like to have a better net/web in the future for user freedom, privacy, and control." https://kelar.org/~bandali/talks/libreplanet-2022-net-beyond-web.txt

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11 AM, March 21

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11:39 TR News; EPO is Hiding 4.9 Billion and President Campinos Has Decided to Freeze the Salaries of All Staff and to Deprive at least 40% of Them of Any Career Progression | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/plundering-epo-staff-during-high-inflation/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/plundering-epo-staff-during-high-inflation/

11:39 TR Bot; EPO is Hiding 4.9 Billion and President Campinos Has Decided to Freeze the Salaries of All Staff and to Deprive at least 40% of Them of Any Career Progression | Techrights

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noon, March 21

12:01 *SomeH4x0r (~someh4xx@7n99st3fyggac.irc) has joined #techrights

12:01 TR News; LibrePlanet Featuring Gemini and Geminispace for 2 Years in a Row | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/bandali-geminispace-and-gopher/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/bandali-geminispace-and-gopher/

12:02 TR Bot; LibrePlanet Featuring Gemini and Geminispace for 2 Years in a Row | Techrights

12:02 *matey (~matey@5adyqrxsr3hiq.irc) has joined #techrights

12:02 matey; https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/libreplanet-living-liberation-day-two-retrospective-and-motivation-for-freedom "RMS's address will be entitled "The State of the Free Software Movement," and will be held by the FSF on April 13 at 14:00 EDT (18:00 UTC)."

12:02 TR Bot; LibrePlanet: "Living Liberation" Day two retrospective, and motivation for freedom Free Software Foundation Working together for free software

12:03 schestowitz-TR; good sign

12:03 matey; i am braced for disappointment, but even with low expectations i will be watching for more information

12:03 schestowitz-TR; maybe to dispell rumours they gag him

12:03 matey; i believe its stockholm syndrome

12:04 matey; leah is right about the relevance of free software. it is threatened. though for the very same reason that free hardware has to have its own movement-- free software will need to be supported (most likely by its own movement) too

12:04 matey; free software does a terrible job of representing free hardware. it doesnt have to, but it does.

12:05 matey; free hardware could be full of people that actually say "it doesnt matter if your software is free as long as you control the hardware" which i do not agree with

12:05 matey; its really not an implausible scenario at all

12:05 matey; though im sure that wont be the official position of free hardware

12:06 matey; also free hardware is going to take years to have the same level of clout or awareness, because how many people will actually have a homemade cpu in 5 years

12:07 activelow; CPU, Networking, Peripheral I/O

12:07 matey; it will be interesting to see what rms says about the state of free software

12:07 matey; after all, he created the thing

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12:12 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 37.65 k/sec., IPFS upstream 23.73 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.89

12:12 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 37.65 k/sec., IPFS upstream 23.73 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.89

12:12 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 37.65 k/sec., IPFS upstream 23.73 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.89

12:22 TR News; http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/putin-loves-windows/

12:22 TR Bot; Putins Russia Loves It When Its Enemies Use Microsoft Windows | Techrights

12:23 TR News; Putins Russia Loves It When Its Enemies Use Microsoft Windows | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/putin-loves-windows/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/putin-loves-windows/

12:49 TR News; [Meme] EPO Even Attacks Its Pensioners | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/campinos-vs-pensioners/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/campinos-vs-pensioners/

12:49 TR Bot; [Meme] EPO Even Attacks Its Pensioners | Techrights

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1 PM, March 21

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13:06 TR News; Social Control Media Double Standards: Killing is OK (If Its Profitable to the Platform Owner) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/gafam-double-standards/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/gafam-double-standards/

13:06 TR Bot; Social Control Media Double Standards: Killing is OK (If Its Profitable to the Platform Owner) | Techrights

13:26 TR News; [Meme] American Clown Computing in Action: Russia Doesnt Need to Bomb Cell Towers in Mariupol When Gulag (Google) Disconnects Citizens of Mariupol | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/clown-computing-reality/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/clown-computing-reality/

13:26 TR Bot; [Meme] American Clown Computing in Action: Russia Doesnt Need to Bomb Cell Towers in Mariupol When Gulag (Google) Disconnects Citizens of Mariupol | Techrights

13:32 *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights

13:34 schestowitz; RMS and LXO https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/libreplanet-2016-fork-the

13:34 TR Bot; ( status 308 @ https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/libreplanet-2016-fork-the )

13:36 schestowitz; https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/decentralizing-the-internet-with-freedombox/

13:36 TR Bot; Decentralizing the Internet with FreedomBox GNU MediaGoblin

13:37 schestowitz; https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/fsf-at-30/

13:37 TR Bot; FSF at 30: history of free software GNU MediaGoblin

13:37 schestowitz; CC

13:39 schestowitz; https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/the-singularity-the-matrix-and-the-terminator-86e0/

13:39 TR Bot; The Singularity, the Matrix, and the Terminator GNU MediaGoblin

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13:55 TR News; Today in #Techrights Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162804

13:55 TR Bot; Today in Techrights | Tux Machines

13:57 TR News; Microbel shilling Microsoft and his sponsor, AMD https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-milanx-hbv3&num=1 that's why I cannot accept Phoronix anymore http://techrights.org/2021/04/20/phoronix-and-microsoft/

13:57 Alternative link; Cloudflare: phoronix.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-milanx-hbv3&num=1

13:57 TR Bot; Milan-X Upgrade In The Cloud Makes Microsoft Azure HBv3 Very Compelling For HPC Review - Phoronix

13:57 TR Bot; Phoronix Needs to Exercise Caution and Stay Vigilant/Careful of Microsoft | Techrights

13:57 TR News; When Blogs Become Marketing and Benchmarks Become Product Promotions Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/02/03/phoronix-went-too-far/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/02/03/phoronix-went-too-far/

13:57 TR Bot; When Blogs Become Marketing and Benchmarks Become Product Promotions | Techrights

2 PM, March 21

14:00 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 24.70 k/sec., IPFS upstream 16.18 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.91

14:02 TR News; Richard Stallman on Why Sites With Clownflare (Cloudflare) Harm Freedom and Human Rights | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-vs-clownflare/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-vs-clownflare/

14:02 TR Bot; Richard Stallman on Why Sites With Clownflare (Cloudflare) Harm Freedom and Human Rights | Techrights

14:05 TR News; The worst things about iPad OS gemini://idiomdrottning.org/ios

14:07 TR News; DDoS in techrights. Weird. Same page requested 6,000+ times in less than a minute.

14:08 *psymin (~psymin@me3biw7mdts84.irc) has joined #techrights

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14:09 TR News; A Musical Story is a very unique rhythm game with plenty of soul | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/a-musical-story-is-a-very-unique-rhythm-game-with-plenty-of-soul

14:09 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/a-musical-story-is-a-very-unique-rhythm-game-with-plenty-of-soul

14:09 TR Bot; Musical Story is a very unique rhythm game with plenty of soul | GamingOnLinux

14:10 TR News; Phoronix's Microbel: I take money from companies other than Microsoft (which I take gifts from) but since they're Microsoft partners I end up shilling Microsoft

14:11 TR News; "Oh good, another fantastic looking pixel-art life sim to suck away my time. Kynseed from PixelCount Studios has a Beta available on Steam for better Steam Deck support" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/sandbox-life-sim-rpg-kynseed-gets-a-beta-for-improved-steam-deck-support/

14:11 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/sandbox-life-sim-rpg-kynseed-gets-a-beta-for-improved-steam-deck-support/

14:11 TR Bot; life sim RPG 'Kynseed' gets a Beta for improved Steam Deck support | GamingOnLinux

14:12 TR News; "There's a new Ubuntu logo and I think it looks awful. AMD FSR 2.0 is announced! Plus, a major kernel exploits affects all Linux devices--including ANDROID!" https://yewtu.be/watch?v=9C6YAtVB-1I

14:12 TR Bot; Reacting to Ubuntu's new logo, major kernel exploits, and other Linux news. - Invidious

14:13 TR News; "Want to play Phasmophobia on a Linux desktop or Steam Deck? Well, it still doesn't yet work fully as the voice recognition isn't there but support for it is coming thanks to the Wine team." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/wine-and-proton-have-a-curious-case-of-phasmophobia/

14:13 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/wine-and-proton-have-a-curious-case-of-phasmophobia/

14:13 TR Bot; and Proton have a 'Curious Case of Phasmophobia' | GamingOnLinux

14:14 TR News; "Developer Ariel Jurkowski emailed in about their upcoming game Please Fix The Road, a puzzle game all about fixing up the roads and it really does look quite wonderful. The developer also confirmed full Linux support at release." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/please-fix-the-road-is-a-gorgeous-upcoming-puzzle-game

14:14 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/please-fix-the-road-is-a-gorgeous-upcoming-puzzle-game

14:14 TR Bot; Fix The Road is a gorgeous upcoming puzzle game | GamingOnLinux

14:16 TR News; The EPOs Benot Battistelli and Antnio Campinos have both crushed staff such as patent examiners, putting them on time-limited contracts with decreasing salaries while compelling them to grant lots of bogus European Patents, including software patents; no wonder the staff goes on strike! http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/plundering-epo-staff-during-high-inflation/

14:16 TR Bot; EPO is Hiding 4.9 Billion and President Campinos Has Decided to Freeze the Salaries of All Staff and to Deprive at least 40% of Them of Any Career Progression | Techrights

14:16 TR News; The GNU maintainer of Jami, GNUzilla and IceCat says there are some possibilities on where we could go from here if we would like to have a better net/web in the future for user freedom, privacy, and control. http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/bandali-geminispace-and-gopher/

14:16 TR Bot; LibrePlanet Featuring Gemini and Geminispace for 2 Years in a Row | Techrights

14:17 TR News; Putins Russia is taking advantage of Microsofts products being unsafe by design http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/putin-loves-windows/

14:17 TR Bot; Putins Russia Loves It When Its Enemies Use Microsoft Windows | Techrights

14:17 TR News; EPO workers who go on strike tomorrow are also helping those who cannot go on strike (but are similarly suffering from Antnio Campinos) http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/campinos-vs-pensioners/

14:17 TR Bot; [Meme] EPO Even Attacks Its Pensioners | Techrights

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14:17 TR News; Now that Twitter profits from conflict, Facebook allows people to call for deaths of people, and Google (Gulag) profits from assassination based on algorithms (Hey Hi) we need to highlight the extraordinary degree of hypocrisy http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/gafam-double-standards/

14:17 TR Bot; Social Control Media Double Standards: Killing is OK (If Its Profitable to the Platform Owner) | Techrights

14:18 TR News; The real risks associated with Clown Computing are becoming ever more apparent; years ago in Venezuela and now in Russia or Ukraine (Gulag cannot even distinguish!); these are the sorts of companies that have taken over Open Source and are basically normalising crimes against humanity http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/clown-computing-reality/

14:18 TR Bot; [Meme] American Clown Computing in Action: Russia Doesnt Need to Bomb Cell Towers in Mariupol When Gulag (Google) Disconnects Citizens of Mariupol | Techrights

14:18 *batalie (~natalie@2pnuqzgrdxesq.irc) has joined #techrights

14:18 TR News; Richard M. Stallman (RMS) spoke on the matter half a decade ago (he covered many other issues) http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-vs-clownflare/

14:18 TR News; Games: A Musical Story, Please Fix The Road, Kynseed, and Phasmophobia Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162805

14:18 TR Bot; Games: A Musical Story, Please Fix The Road, Kynseed, and Phasmophobia | Tux Machines

14:23 *Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).

14:23 *Now talking on #techrights

14:23 *Topic for #techrights is: Techrights.org IRC discussions @ Freenode | Channel #techrights for http://techrights.org [logged online] :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell for related discussions. Official channels are at irc.techrights.org | For scrollback see http://techrights.org/irc-channel/

14:23 *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@freenode-18vdut.5mai.fl0c.t29qgt.IP at Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970

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14:26 batalie; speaking of rms, fsf announced an rms talk for april 13

14:27 batalie; don't remember the time

14:27 batalie; end of lp

14:31 schestowitz-TR; yup:

14:32 schestowitz-TR; [12:02] <matey> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/libreplanet-living-liberation-day-two-retrospective-and-motivation-for-freedom "RMS's address will be entitled "The State of the Free Software Movement," and will be held by the FSF on April 13 at 14:00 EDT (18:00 UTC)."

14:32 TR Bot; LibrePlanet: "Living Liberation" Day two retrospective, and motivation for freedom Free Software Foundation Working together for free software

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14:33 schestowitz-TR; ciphrCat:

14:33 schestowitz-TR; http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-vs-clownflare/

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14:58 TR News; Linux 5.17 arrives: Here's what's inside http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162775#comment-33138

14:58 TR Bot; Linux Kernel 5.17 Officially Released, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines

3 PM, March 21

15:01 AdmFubar; https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-investigating-claims-of-hacked-source-code-repositories/

15:01 Alternative link; Cloudflare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsoft-investigating-claims-of-hacked-source-code-repositories/

15:01 TR Bot; Microsoft investigating claims of hacked source code repositories

15:03 MinceR; 21 110913 <~schestowitz> where did you first see it?

15:03 MinceR; probably on wikipedia

15:03 MinceR; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putler

15:03 TR Bot; Putler - Wikipedia

15:04 TR News; Linux Mint Debian Edition 5 is now available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162666#comment-33139

15:04 TR Bot; LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) 5 Elsie Is Now Available for Download | Tux Machines

15:05 schestowitz-TR; AdmFubar: Microsoft is the largest malware distributor

15:05 schestowitz-TR; but it's also market leader in bribing the media

15:06 schestowitz-TR; so the media always blames the recipients of the malware

15:06 MinceR; schestowitz-TR: it's linked from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuylo! , which is probably how i found it

15:06 TR Bot; Putin khuylo! - Wikipedia

15:31 TR News; Links 21/3/2022: Lots About Kernel, RMS Talk Scheduled for April and | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-talk-april/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/rms-talk-april/

15:31 TR Bot; Links 21/3/2022: Lots About Kernel, RMS Talk Scheduled for April and | Techrights

15:32 TR News; Proprietary Software and Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162806

15:32 TR Bot; Proprietary Software and Security Leftovers | Tux Machines

15:32 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162807

15:32 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines

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15:41 techrights_guest|56; Hello, I just watched the video on pulling in the feed through command line. I was able to pull it in however it does not refresh unless i repaste, which is fine, i was just wondering if the command line can refresh or if it is manual refresh.

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15:47 techrights_guest|56; i will check back later.

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15:53 MinceR; https://hugelolcdn.com/i/817639.jpg

15:53 Alternative link; Cloudflare: hugelolcdn.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://hugelolcdn.com/i/817639.jpg

4 PM, March 21

16:05 TR News; Sites That Care About GNU/Linux and Users of Free Software Dont Help Sell Microsoft | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/selling-microsoft/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/selling-microsoft/

16:05 TR Bot; Sites That Care About GNU/Linux and Users of Free Software Dont Help Sell Microsoft | Techrights

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16:35 TR News; EPO Management Seems to be Resorting to Illegal Union-Busting Tactics, Suppression/Deterrence by List-Making | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/strike-busting-antonio-campinos/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/strike-busting-antonio-campinos/

16:35 TR Bot; EPO Management Seems to be Resorting to Illegal Union-Busting Tactics, Suppression/Deterrence by List-Making | Techrights

16:50 MinceR; (cat) https://ircz.de/p/22032121

16:50 TR Bot; IRCZ makes your life worth living https://0x0.st/oNpb.jpg created on 2022-03-21 05:37:50.773078

5 PM, March 21

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17:13 Ariadne; 12:17 PM <XRevan86> Ariadne: Regarding apko, what is the software to run containers that Alpine has in mind? Still podman/Docker?

17:14 Ariadne; whatever you want to use, in kubernetes-land we prefer CRI-o

17:17 *matey (~matey@9bsrk9cwiznhk.irc) has joined #techrights

17:17 matey; "Sites That Care About GNU/Linux and Users of Free Software Dont Help Sell Microsoft"

17:18 matey; while rms is talking about the state of free software, perhaps he can name a gnu/linux website that doesnt help sell microsoft

17:18 matey; good luck to him

17:18 Ariadne; what does this even mean

17:19 Ariadne; is he talking about like, phoronix?

17:19 matey; rms is giving a talk on the "state of free software" in april

17:19 matey; lets see

17:19 matey; actually it mentions phoronix

17:20 matey; and cnx

17:20 matey; "No doubt Phoronix is not the biggest problem out there, but it is becoming more problematic over time. It may seem innocent to Michael, but even if hes shilling Microsoft for his sponsor, AMD, that hurts all of us."

17:21 Ariadne; i'll admit it is a bit off-putting to hear about WSL on Phoronix

17:21 matey; i dont share roys affinity for microbel anyway

17:22 matey; so while the story about the "crate of amds" which i presume to be true IS interesting, it isnt as much of a surprise to me

17:22 XRevan86; Ariadne: thanks

17:22 matey; i wont say i was expecting it

17:23 matey; "Free software cannot win if proponents of Software Freedom get brainwashed by Microsoft and outsource systems to Microsoft."

17:24 matey; that paints an uncharacteristically bleak picture :) did mincer write it?

17:26 MinceR; no

17:26 Ariadne; https://linuxfoundation.org/blog/statement-against-texas-discrimination/

17:26 Alternative link; Cloudflare: linuxfoundation.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://linuxfoundation.org/blog/statement-against-texas-discrimination/

17:26 TR Bot; STATEMENT AGAINST TEXAS DISCRIMINATION - Linux Foundation

17:26 matey; no, i was joking because youre the most pessimistic person here

17:26 Ariadne; i mean, they could just

17:26 Ariadne; move their events

17:26 Ariadne; out of texas

17:27 matey; and a lot of your pessimism i agree with (maybe not to exactly the same degree)

17:27 matey; if it were not for your pessimism this place would be even sillier

17:28 Ariadne; i don't really get LF

17:28 Ariadne; lol

17:28 matey; i mean, they could just move their events out of texas <- hehe

17:28 matey; sell their crates of amds to aquaman

17:29 matey; /me figures we are talking about lf now and didnt know they did events in texas

17:29 DaemonFC; https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-requires-microsofts-bing-suspend-auto-suggest-feature-2022-03-21/

17:29 TR Bot; requires Microsoft's Bing to suspend auto-suggest feature | Reuters

17:29 DaemonFC; Microsoft censoring even more in China.

17:30 DaemonFC; "Microsoft Corp's (MSFT.O) Bing, the only major foreign search engine available in China"

17:30 DaemonFC; Because they're the only company that worked with the Communist Party to suppress their citizens instead of pulling out of the country.

17:31 DaemonFC; Google used to run the Chinese version in Hong Kong and then left.

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17:32 DaemonFC; https://www.reuters.com/technology/meta-asks-russian-court-dismiss-proceedings-extremism-case-reports-2022-03-21/

17:32 TR Bot; finds Meta guilty of 'extremist activity', says WhatsApp can stay | Reuters

17:32 DaemonFC; Why can WhatsApp stay if it really does have E2E encryption that isn't backdoored?

17:34 *matey (~matey@tb3bujhpbsxqn.irc) has joined #techrights

17:37 activelow; matey: responding to "free hardware", to begin with, hardware design requires software

17:37 matey; activelow: im very familiar with your research

17:37 activelow; that's why, i am not too impressed, if some free/open hardware is deployed to Altera(Intel) or Xilinx(AMD) with their tooling

17:38 matey; however, lea.h made points yesterday that actually bring a bit of hope to escaping the cycle of dependency you (perhaps correctly) point out

17:38 matey; if some free/open hardware is deployed to Altera(Intel) or Xilinx(AMD) with their tooling <- i agree

17:38 matey; however, if its possible to escape both at once, there is hope

17:39 matey; you talk about nasa and old intel chips

17:39 matey; what your research shows, if anything, is that the cycle of dependency may not be able to break with the existing brands

17:39 matey; able to be broken ^

17:40 matey; and it would help IMMENSELY if you could publish it in more detail, but i realise theres nothing in it for you, its not like youre getting paid for this

17:40 DaemonFC; MakeUseOf mentioned an article of "Netflix problems", so I posted this:

17:40 DaemonFC; It started with them willing to sell it below cost to gain a subscriber base.

17:40 DaemonFC; Then Comcast complained that it was using too much bandwidth and Comcast corrupted the stream to ruin Netflix, unless they paid Comcast a bribe, which they did.

17:40 DaemonFC; Then other ISPs followed. No federal or state charges against Comcast even though they falsely advertised a speed package and upcharged their customers who wanted better speed, _and_ are engaging in a protection racket against Netflix which all Netflix customers pay for even if their ISP is not Comcast. Because Murrica.

17:40 DaemonFC; Then Netflix decided that they were done losing money and started raising the prices every year. Now any tier costs about double what it did five years ago except SD on one screen, which went up about 30%.

17:40 DaemonFC; But it turns out that even when you pay extra for more "screens", they still don't allow it if they think someone who doesn't live with you is watching it, so they want even more money.

17:40 DaemonFC; All while canceling anything even sort of worth watching and filling up their app with Redbox-style B movie garbage.

17:40 DaemonFC; This is going to backfire on them, big time.

17:41 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, I've considered filing a lawsuit against the city in small claims court.

17:41 DaemonFC; Seeking damages of what I had to pay my attorney to beat that traffic ticket.

17:42 DaemonFC; Since it was dismissed for lack of evidence, I could try using that as proof that they damaged me without any basis for doing so.

17:42 matey; if it were not for the things lea.h is excited about, we might be more free-as-in-freedom with zilog chips like you said

17:43 matey; which might not be terribly practical but it was certainly interesting

17:44 matey; i didnt actually miss the 8 bit era but im afraid i got a semi-16 bit machine too soon

17:44 activelow; 8bit data-bus

17:44 matey; miss ^ i didnt actually, i mean i had an 8 bit machine first, i wish id made use of it for longer than i did

17:45 matey; <activelow> 8bit data-bus <- was making a parody of a 16 bit machine with an 8 bit data bus yesterday

17:45 matey; i was making up a story about a machine with a digital cpu and an analogue bus (the bottlenect was the adc and the dac) but this was made up as a joke, no one called me on it (its ok if they ignored it)

17:46 matey; however it was said in parody of a machine i actually owned

17:47 matey; i had a timex sinclair once

17:47 matey; loaded programs on audiocassette

17:48 matey; but i was 4. didnt get into programming until i was at least partly on 16-bit hardware

17:49 matey; if i had been a little older i might have coded with an 8 bit machine, and the cool thing about 8 bit that i missed was

17:49 matey; 8 bit makes it so trivial to get lower level

17:50 matey; and since the machine is so limited the rewards for making that (relatively) trivial effort are larger

17:50 matey; weve lost out a little with every advance since then, at least in terms of education

17:50 matey; it probably balances out at some point, but still

17:57 activelow; they're pulling the strings from Silicon Valley/RAND Corp and Pentagon anyway

17:57 matey; theres no doubt of it

17:57 activelow; still looking for some untapped VT100 terminal with PS/2 and VGA which wasn't tampered with by them

17:58 matey; you know really activelow, if they want you badly enough they can use radio to commandeer some hardware operations

17:58 matey; unless youre going to do your research in a faraday cage

17:58 TR News; We are unfortunately seeing sites that focus on Linux falling into the hands of Microsoft with its marketing operations; if we cannot understand or cannot agree that such software should be rejected, thats a very big problem http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/selling-microsoft/

17:58 TR Bot; Sites That Care About GNU/Linux and Users of Free Software Dont Help Sell Microsoft | Techrights

17:58 matey; though to be fair, that may presume you have an ethernet port

17:59 matey; i dont know if it applies to a breadboard and a cpu (or how it possibly would)

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6 PM, March 21

18:01 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 24.83 k/sec., IPFS upstream 16.95 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.94

18:01 TR News; The EPO Mafia (this what staff calls the management) seems to be doing what every rogue employer tends to do when staff organises and takes action; the staff union says that the Mafia has meanwhile published that staff must register in the EPO Strike tool." http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/strike-busting-antonio-campinos/

18:01 TR Bot; EPO Management Seems to be Resorting to Illegal Union-Busting Tactics, Suppression/Deterrence by List-Making | Techrights

18:01 activelow; currently cleaning up and finalizing the no-c++ linux firmware; then TinyCC which i hope for can fully replace GCC, before i fully depart, from GNU/Linux

18:02 matey; before i fully depart, from GNU/Linux <- are you going to write your own kernel?

18:02 activelow; i'll keep that archived, for historical reasons, since i doubt i can keep up with the higher intellect of C11 and Kernel any later than v5.10

18:03 DaemonFC; I was talking about Hollywood the other day.

18:03 DaemonFC; mjg59_ was talking about how trans people face discrimination.

18:03 activelow; i probably could hack some kernel stuff, yes. nonetheless it's a waste of time mostly, because hardware.

18:03 matey; of course

18:04 DaemonFC; But the media doesn't show anyone with a realistic body type.

18:04 DaemonFC; In the US, over half the population is overweight and you hardly ever see one on a movie.

18:04 DaemonFC; Or in a TV show.

18:04 activelow; see GNU/Hurd... aiming for Intel x86/x86_64...; and i am not as skilled as the hackers involved with GNU/Hurd

18:04 matey; it makes sense then, for you to follow what leah is doing, since it might enable you to move past zilog

18:04 DaemonFC; It's the last acceptable discrimination out there, I think, is body type.

18:04 activelow; matey: what is she is doing?

18:05 DaemonFC; From what you're shown on TV to the clothes you're allowed to buy in the "normal" store.

18:05 matey; organising a free hardware movement

18:05 matey; but not only the sort of free hardware you are sceptical of

18:05 matey; i mean actual free hardware, like the kind you can make at home

18:06 matey; like a homemade cpu, lithography and everything

18:06 matey; really free hardware

18:06 matey; free design, download and produce

18:06 matey; not just fpga

18:07 matey; not "3d printed" because of resolution of course, but that level of control over production

18:07 activelow; interesting. btw. in WhiteRussia an alternative production line for TTL 7400 series parts exists. maybe they haven't forgotten everything there, how to do it.

18:08 DaemonFC; It's perfectly okay to pick on some people for factors beyond their control I suppose.

18:08 matey; it seems unlikely that an entire industry would forget its own industry

18:08 DaemonFC; Fat-shaming is really another way of poor shaming.

18:09 matey; though the idea that they could abstract themselves to a point of no return seems less implausible

18:09 DaemonFC; Being fat used to mean you were rich. Only people who were rich could afford enough food to be fat, and food that tasted good enough to want to eat enough to be fat.

18:09 DaemonFC; Today, it's flipped.

18:09 matey; certain companies could become dependent on things they dont control and, oops

18:09 DaemonFC; The rich spend more to get access to healthy food. They live forever. They don't have as many problems with their weight.

18:10 DaemonFC; Poor people are fed junk that's one notch up from animal feed.

18:10 matey; the thing is, you really dont factor in the very things that could unpaint your bleak picture

18:10 DaemonFC; Seasonings cost money, so the one used in bulk, everywhere, is salt.

18:10 DaemonFC; Which is REALLY NOT GOOD FOR YOU.

18:10 matey; its still interesting research and it shows mistakes that were made along the way

18:11 DaemonFC; https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/tj90r6/theyre_all_using_the_same_playbook/

18:11 TR Bot; they're all using the same playbook : LateStageCapitalism

18:12 activelow; apropos, WhiteRussia/Ukraine: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-state-nuclear-company-unable-monitor-radiation-levels-around-chernobyl-2022-03-21/

18:12 TR Bot; state nuclear company unable to monitor radiation levels around Chernobyl | Reuters

18:12 DaemonFC; I was talking to mjg59_ some more last night about apps and slavery.

18:12 matey; im not familiar with the term "white russia" except regarding mixed drinks

18:12 DaemonFC; They've created a new kind of worker that's below even a person making minimum wage.

18:12 DaemonFC; Apps are a way to violate wage and hour laws and make it legal.

18:12 DaemonFC; People shouldn't use them.

18:13 activelow; white-russia is the neighboring country of the Russian Federation and Ukraine; they changed their name to express distinction from the federation

18:13 DaemonFC; Illinois hasn't done anything to help "gig workers". California has done some small things, but stopped well short of giving them at least the same rights as a minimum wage employee.

18:13 matey; they changed their name to express distinction from the federation <- i cant say i blame them

18:13 activelow; i do

18:13 DaemonFC; In fact, about all Illinois has done with Uber and the rest is tax them.

18:13 matey; i dont know why

18:13 DaemonFC; Because it taxes the shit out of everything.

18:14 activelow; they speak Russian or a dialect thereof, they share common history, including the operation of Chernobyl

18:14 activelow; and Weissrussland is the name i learned in school, and keep it at this

18:15 activelow; White, because of the winter seasons there. that's why. no other political nuance.

18:15 matey; i didnt assume it was some racist trope

18:16 matey; i dont figure the drink name is intended that way either

18:16 matey; they would have renamed it by now :)

18:16 XRevan86; PSA: Don't take activelow's claims seriously.

18:16 matey; XRevan86: its difficult to verify unpublished research

18:16 matey; as for his politics... well... you know

18:16 XRevan86; matey: It's easy to verify that his linguistic research is full of shit.

18:16 DaemonFC; XRevan86, He liked the 49% East German Coffee Mix that ruined coffee makers.

18:16 XRevan86; I can vet this part of his claims with my brain off.

18:17 DaemonFC; He sees it as the pinnacle of Communist central planning achievement.

18:17 XRevan86; "White, because of the winter seasons there." <- So full of shit.

18:17 matey; XRevan86: when i said its difficult to verify... so is a lot of...

18:17 DaemonFC; When you can't even get coffee, just dilute it with something that clogs the machine and ruins it.

18:17 matey; im being diplomatic. though my interest is not insincere

18:18 DaemonFC; That way the public has to give up on coffee because they'd have to go to the black market for both.

18:18 matey; i am intrigued one way or another

18:18 DaemonFC; MinceR, ^

18:18 XRevan86; https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C_1596_%D0%B3._%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%97%D1%8B%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE.jpg

18:18 Alternative link; Cloudflare: wikimedia.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C_1596_%D0%B3._%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%97%D1%8B%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE.jpg

18:18 matey; if its a troll is a truly epic one

18:18 XRevan86; activelow: ^ check this out

18:18 XRevan86; XVI century mini-dictionary (Church Slavonic <-> "Ukrainian")

18:18 XRevan86; It actually uses the word "Ukrainian".

18:19 XRevan86; Ah, no, I confused myself, never mind.

18:19 XRevan86; Should put my brain on on now.

18:19 DaemonFC; If Communism is so great, why does every Communist country have a black market, and why are the black markets shopped by nearly anyone who can afford it, and why do the black markets have daily living essentials and not just bourgeoisie creature comforts?

18:20 DaemonFC; People have to shop it for coffee, beans, rice, and flour. Not exactly Playstations and iPhones.

18:20 XRevan86; Anyway, the word is kind of old, but not that old, it was very stupid what I did there.

18:20 matey; the main thing ive gotten from activelow is that c++ is needed to bootstrap gcc

18:21 DaemonFC; But in many Communist countries, people cannot afford the black market prices because by causing the black market in the first place, the government has mandated high prices and supply chain inefficiencies to make it worth the risk of being caught and having your stuff seized and ran over by trucks.

18:21 TR News; COVID-19 in the United Kingdom: Almost a Quarter Million Confirmed Infections Reported Today (Worse Since First Week of January)http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/03/21/records-confirmed-today/

18:21 TR Bot; Blog Archive COVID-19 in the United Kingdom: Almost a Quarter Million Confirmed Infections Reported Today (Worse Since First Week of January)

18:21 MinceR; stalinists built memorials to how horrible the countries they managed were to live in

18:21 matey; and that we might be more free with zilog, which is an argument that i truly enjoy, not only as a joke

18:21 MinceR; like the Berlin Wall

18:21 XRevan86; "but not that old" <- Though it kind of is actually.

18:21 MinceR; their slaves tried to escape from the system we're supposed to believe was so great, so they built walls to prevent the slaves from escaping

18:22 DaemonFC; MinceR, The Berlin Wall was just meant to slow you down. It's hard to shoot thousands of people in the back and get them all while they try to escape if you don't slow them down.

18:22 MinceR; which shows that not even the stalinists thought of stalinism as an attractive proposition for the masses

18:22 MinceR; DaemonFC: well, walls rarely work if they aren't guarded

18:22 matey; mincer: i think theres more than one holocaust museum, but i dont think any of them are intended to celebrate it

18:22 MinceR; the berlin wall had kill zones and stuff

18:23 DaemonFC; MinceR, Like Trump spending tens of billions of dollars on border wall that fell over and is being sawed through and tunneled under?

18:23 MinceR; yeah

18:23 XRevan86; "they changed their name to express distinction from the federation" <- Anyway, this is false.

18:23 DaemonFC; As long as the people running the government actually are this stupid, it doesn't matter.

18:23 DaemonFC; It's YOUR money they take and waste on this junk.

18:24 matey; im less shocked there are memorials to stalinism, i find it more shocking that people still put his bloody picture up in shops

18:24 matey; it would be like finding pictures of hitler in a shop in germany

18:24 matey; not for sale, i mean as decor

18:24 DaemonFC; Well, that would be illegal.

18:25 DaemonFC; Holocaust denial is so illegal in Germany that it's also the law.

18:25 MinceR; matey: you wouldn't believe how stupid people are

18:25 matey; MinceR: just because im not as pessimistic as you are doesnt mean i think youre from another planet

18:25 MinceR; :>

18:25 matey; i think im probably at least 90% as pessimistic

18:25 matey; 95% as cynical

18:25 matey; but a percentage point can mean a lot

18:25 DaemonFC; They censor out a lot of things that mention the Nazis in disgust and contempt.

18:26 matey; depending what its a percentage of naturally

18:26 DaemonFC; You know. Like, it's illegal to mention it because it makes them more comfortable not to admit it happened.

18:26 DaemonFC; But at the same time it's also illegal to say it never happened.

18:26 DaemonFC; They're some weird fucking people, the Germans.

18:26 matey; back shortly

18:27 *matey has quit (Quit)

18:27 activelow; DaemonFC: you are temporarily placed onto /ignore

18:27 MinceR; DaemonFC: they also banned at least one game which was about killing nazis

18:28 DaemonFC; They didn't ban it, they just censored Wolfenstein 3d to the point where you were walking around killing men in brown clothes for no reason at all, and rats, in a castle.

18:28 DaemonFC; With blank pictures on the walls.

18:29 DaemonFC; MinceR, Would be an interesting backstory if there was only a reason why the player character wanted to go into a castle with blank pictures and kill men in brown uniforms and rats.

18:29 MinceR; well, at least no poor virtual nazis got hurt in germany for a while :>

18:29 DaemonFC; Almost as interesting would be why nothing bleeds when it gets shot.

18:30 MinceR; it's because the self-appointed "moral" "guardians" faint if they see blood depicted on a screen

18:30 DaemonFC; Back in those days, it was probably a lot harder to slip people the real WADs into Germany so they could play the actual game.

18:30 DaemonFC; You have to copy those floppies and all.

18:30 DaemonFC; Or whatever game data format Wolf3d used.

18:30 MinceR; they weren't WADs yet :>

18:31 DaemonFC; It was WAD-like I think.

18:32 MinceR; it had separate files for separate types of data

18:32 MinceR; https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Wolfenstein_3-D

18:32 TR Bot; Wolfenstein 3-D - ModdingWiki

18:32 DaemonFC; Wolf3d's engine is GPL now I believe.

18:32 DaemonFC; Nobody ever did much with it though.

18:33 DaemonFC; Although there WERE other games in the 90s based on Wolf3d, as a licensed engine.

18:33 MinceR; AudioT itself used 2 or 3 files to do the job of 1 WAD file, and only for audio files

18:33 DaemonFC; I also had Corridor 7: Alien Invasion.

18:33 MinceR; :)

18:33 DaemonFC; There was also some Bible game I did not have, I think.

18:33 MinceR; the pinnacle of entertainment software!

18:36 DaemonFC; Duke Nukem was probably my favorite 90s game though.

18:36 DaemonFC; In the eduke32 engine, it's better.

18:37 MinceR; you mean Duke Nukem 3D :>

18:37 MinceR; Duke Nukem was great, but it was a platform game and afaik eduke32 doesn't support it

18:41 DaemonFC; Yeah, that's it.

18:41 DaemonFC; Speaking of "walls", almost everyone in this city has a tall fence that's pretty sturdy.

18:41 DaemonFC; They know where they live I guess.

18:41 activelow; gcc can be bootstrapped without c++ until version v4.7, which required some backporting and patching with gentoo tooling

18:41 DaemonFC; Makes it harder for people the police are chasing to end up in your back yard.

18:42 activelow; and, gcc cannot be boostrapped easily anymore with TinyCC, which was the other finding, what the status of GNU is

18:42 *matey (~matey@px2in65xgak5s.irc) has joined #techrights

18:43 activelow; matey: gcc can be bootstrapped without c++ until version v4.7, which required some backporting and patching with gentoo tooling

18:43 activelow; matey: and, gcc cannot be boostrapped easily anymore with TinyCC, which was the other finding, what the status of GNU is

18:43 activelow; and i stumbled upon some nasty issue recently, which is the linker added some stuff, which it shouldn't

18:43 DaemonFC; https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/google-settles-over-firing-workers-protesting-immigration-cloud-deal-2022-03-21/

18:43 TR Bot; settles over firing of workers protesting immigration cloud deal | Reuters

18:44 DaemonFC; GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLAG

18:44 activelow; no idea where this symbol coming from now: __aeabi_unwind_cpp_pr0, yet it causes all binaries linked against libgcc_s.so.1

18:44 activelow; which caused some issues in early stage builds with gentoo, which i struggled with

18:44 activelow; this minor issue alone, had cost me several days of headache

18:45 activelow; and, it's not solved yet... i'm at it

18:45 matey; matey: gcc can be bootstrapped without c++ until version v4.7 <- yes ive followed your compilation odyssey fairly closely

18:45 activelow; why the f** does the linker add stuff which it didn't before...

18:46 activelow; that's another reason why, i'll depart, i've had enough of this

18:46 matey; for someone who doesnt want to be married, youre taking long enough with the divorce

18:47 *activelow cannot afford marriage

18:47 matey; who can?

18:47 matey; bill gates is one of the 10 richest people on earth, and... well...

18:47 TR News; Who thought Gulag would profit from a gulag? https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/google-settles-over-firing-workers-protesting-immigration-cloud-deal-2022-03-21/ Microsoft also: http://techrights.org/2021/04/04/microsoft-nationalism/

18:47 TR Bot; Microsoft: Nationalism As A Service (NaaS) | Techrights

18:48 schestowitz-TR; activelow: marriage is not about money

18:48 schestowitz-TR; if someone thinks that it is, you do NOT want to marry that person

18:49 matey; roy is pulling an mjg here

18:49 matey; he says marriage isnt about money

18:50 matey; try being poor and finding a wife though

18:50 matey; obviously money is a factor

18:50 matey; and by mjg i mean daemonfcs usual claims that he lives in an ivory tower

18:51 MinceR; does finding a wife require significantly more money than finding a partner to live with but not marry?

18:51 matey; MinceR: luck of the draw i think. sometimes, absolutely

18:51 matey; ive seen people ruined that way. im not against marriage

18:52 matey; but if the argument is that you dont have to get married for someone to ruin your life, thats obviously true

18:52 MinceR; afaict marriage does 2 things: 1) makes separation more costly and 2) sends a signal to a state that meddles in your private affairs uninvited

18:52 DaemonFC; https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/03/21/pretty-much-all-apple-clown-disservices-went-down-today-apple-had-no-comment/

18:52 TR Bot; Pretty much all Apple Clown disservices went down today. Apple had no comment. BaronHK's Rants

18:52 TR News; Richard M. Stallman (RMS) Did Not Speak at LibrePlanet, But Hell Give an FSF Talk Very Soon (The State of the Free Software Movement) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-state-of-the-free-software-movement/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-state-of-the-free-software-movement/

18:52 TR Bot; Richard M. Stallman (RMS) Did Not Speak at LibrePlanet, But Hell Give an FSF Talk Very Soon (The State of the Free Software Movement) | Techrights

18:53 matey; marriage does 2 things: 1) makes separation more costly <- this is at risk of being an understatement

18:53 DaemonFC; I refer to them as Disservices as a Software Substitute, or DaaSS.

18:53 matey; apple-had-no-comment <- maybe they couldnt login to make one :)

18:53 DaemonFC; <matey> marriage does 2 things: 1) makes separation more costly <- this is at risk of being an understatement

18:53 DaemonFC; The IRS sticks it to single people WAAAAAY worse than it does to married people.

18:53 matey; DaemonFC im thinking of family courts

18:54 DaemonFC; If we were single, we would have owed 90.32 times as much in federal income tax last year.

18:54 matey; you can have kids for free until the divorce, then the gods themselves will come down upon you

18:54 DaemonFC; It's a corner case, but it shows how being married is heavily favored by the government.

18:54 matey; /me doesnt have kids

18:55 matey; welfare: oh youre not married and have kids you cant afford, have some money

18:55 SomeH4x0r; why have kids?

18:55 schestowitz-TR; [18:50] <matey> try being poor and finding a wife though

18:55 matey; also welfare: oh youre married and have kids you cant afford, have some money

18:55 schestowitz-TR; I had no money when I met rianne

18:55 SomeH4x0r; why marry?

18:55 matey; also welfare: of youre getting divorced and the wife is taking the kids you cant afford anyway <- DIE, MOTHERFUCKER!

18:55 schestowitz-TR; like I said, it's better not to marry than to find someone who checks the check

18:56 schestowitz-TR; like a prior date who asked me my salary on the FIRST DATE

18:56 matey; if youre a guy in a family on welfare and you (or your partner) gets a divorce, may god have mercy on your soul

18:57 matey; welfare seems to have everything figured out (i didnt say very well) up to this point

18:57 matey; after that marriage becomes sort of a blood oath against yourself

18:57 schestowitz-TR; imho, getting married makes faaaaar more sense than having children

18:57 schestowitz-TR; more so in the current economic climate and actual climate

18:57 matey; getting married makes faaaaar more sense than having children <- only one of these is necessary to the survival of the human race

18:58 schestowitz-TR; marriage increases sharing, which lowers costs, never mind tax benefits

18:58 schestowitz-TR; but companionship is a factor too

18:58 schestowitz-TR; ask DaemonFC about mandy serving him tea with poison

18:58 matey; im sure it was an honest mistake

18:58 DaemonFC; Kids are MOST CERTAINLY NOT FREE until the divorce.

18:58 DaemonFC; They just get WORSE after divorce.

18:59 DaemonFC; For men, anyway.

18:59 schestowitz-TR; matey: "survival of the human race" is overrated anyway

18:59 schestowitz-TR; ask MinceR for details

18:59 matey; DaemonFC: i used to volunteer at a homeless shelter

18:59 DaemonFC; For men, they get sentenced to child support and never get to see them. Work schedules and shit.

18:59 matey; i know im glossing over loads of details here

18:59 matey; but you can have kids you cant afford-- until the divorce

18:59 DaemonFC; For women, they get the kids and get to take the men back to court if the check stops coming for ANY reason, and have you thrown in prison for back child support.

18:59 matey; its like divorce puts you on the hook for something you never had the money for in the first place

7 PM, March 21

19:00 matey; or like welfare starts working in reverse

19:00 DaemonFC; Even if you lost your job and it wasn't your fault and nobody is hiring and you're on your mother's couch and can't make any money at all.

19:00 DaemonFC; It's called a vindictive and sexist court system, my friend. :)

19:00 DaemonFC; Don't forget nasty. Nastier than fuck.

19:00 matey; but its a fact that people can survive raising kids they cant afford

19:00 TR News; Capital and Copyright gemini://idiomdrottning.org/capital-and-copyright

19:00 matey; and its common

19:00 matey; but after the divorce its a bloody miracle

19:01 DaemonFC; Yeah, because they go and sign up for welfare and expect someone else to pay for their mess.

19:01 DaemonFC; If I'm paying to raise some kids, they should at least be mine.

19:01 DaemonFC; But noooooooo.

19:01 matey; its really like "oh you had kids but cant pay? no problem-- just dont get divorced or we will get you for it then"

19:01 DaemonFC; Goddamned fucking leftists came in and I didn't get to partake in any of the fun bits along the way.

19:01 matey; doesnt matter who wanted the divorce, its a sword of damocles just the same

19:01 *psydroid9 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights

19:01 DaemonFC; Then I get to pay taxes to raise them from birth to "picking up a gun and carjacking someone" age.

19:01 matey; well the difference is that youre against welfare, im not

19:01 DaemonFC; Usually 12-13 in Chicago.

19:02 *psydroid8 has quit (connection closed)

19:02 matey; we are both against the inequities of welfare

19:02 DaemonFC; I love paying taxes to raise a carjacker who shoots a productive member of society......said nobody ever.

19:02 DaemonFC; MinceR, ^

19:02 matey; it shouldnt be based on financially crippling people in lower tax brackets

19:03 matey; its a farce that it is

19:03 DaemonFC; It takes a village to raise an asshole, and all that.

19:03 matey; i dont know, with hitler it only took a doting mother and a world war

19:03 *psydroid9 has quit (connection closed)

19:03 *psydroid8 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights

19:03 *bnchs (~bnchs@xtiawgj44uy6k.irc) has joined #techrights

19:04 bnchs; https://files.catbox.moe/ghgu90.webm

19:04 TR Bot; connect to files.catbox.moe:443; Network is unreachable ( status 0 @ https://files.catbox.moe/ghgu90.webm )

19:04 bnchs; this is modern web

19:06 schestowitz-TR; ouch

19:06 schestowitz-TR; this is js

19:06 psydroid2; the web of misinformation

19:06 matey; css is just as much to blame for that

19:06 MinceR; this is sparta

19:07 matey; the first time i saw a modal css layer i wanted to kill someone

19:07 DaemonFC; Having welfare programs encourages the least productive to be the most reproductive.

19:07 DaemonFC; They should pull it all out by the roots and use the money they saved for something useful, for people who worked their whole life and can't care for themselves anymore.

19:08 matey; DaemonFC: im used to gay men going on about "breeders" but you give it a nice right-wing twist

19:08 matey; and no, its not just gay men-- rms is an anti-natalist

19:08 DaemonFC; The reason there's a pensions crisis is because all the money is paying for people to have sex and produce more people who have no jobs to go to and no future to live in.

19:08 DaemonFC; So it seems pretty evil to me when you think about it.

19:09 matey; The reason there's a pensions crisis <- goes a wee bit beyond welfare really

19:09 matey; if you scrapped every welfare programme on earth there would STILL be a pensions crisis, maybe you can guess why

19:11 matey; pensions arent decided as a direct function of how much money goes into welfare instead

19:12 matey; theyre decided PRIMARILY by how much the laws/econony/employers can fuck over pensioners

19:12 matey; welfare is a convenient excuse

19:12 matey; granted its a common one

19:13 matey; if you want to get right down to it, pensions are just another kind of welfare (but since its welfare for former workers its not taboo with the right)

19:14 matey; disability is often for former workers too, but it gets painted differently than that

19:14 matey; pensions are sacred with the right, but disability (another kind of pension sometimes) isnt

19:15 matey; and by sacred i mean they proclaim very loudly and proudly that they support pensions while gutting them

19:16 matey; The reason there's a pensions crisis is bloody capitalism

19:16 MinceR; :>

19:17 kingoffrance; *creditism

19:17 MinceR; so what's the alternative to capitalism?

19:17 matey; anticapitalism :)

19:17 kingoffrance; credit

19:17 matey; thats a deliberately silly answer

19:17 kingoffrance; thats the truth

19:17 kingoffrance; this is round 2 at least

19:18 matey; anticapitalism is too vague to be a real answer

19:18 kingoffrance; that never stopped anyone

19:18 MinceR; once "capitalism" means "everything that is bad", it becomes quite meaningless and unhelpful when looking for solutions

19:18 matey; once "capitalism" means "everything that is bad" <- good, lets get it right then

19:18 DaemonFC; "He slipped on an icy patch."

19:18 MinceR; or even when looking for root causes

19:19 matey; capitalism doesnt mean that

19:19 DaemonFC; But he was decapitated.

19:19 DaemonFC; "It was a VERY icy patch."

19:19 kingoffrance; oh but it does. its just another religion on both "sides"

19:19 DaemonFC; I like the humor in Dr. Who sometimes.

19:19 matey; kingoffrance on this one we dont agree

19:19 kingoffrance; what does capitalism mean matey ?

19:20 matey; it means that the workers dont control the means of production

19:20 matey; actually, thats less vague but also not a definition.

19:20 kingoffrance; who are "the workers" ?

19:20 MinceR; (audio) https://hugelolcdn.com/v/817559.mp4

19:20 Alternative link; Cloudflare: hugelolcdn.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://hugelolcdn.com/v/817559.mp4

19:20 matey; youre not serious

19:20 kingoffrance; its just word games

19:21 matey; its not

19:21 matey; science isnt just word games

19:21 kingoffrance; lol

19:21 matey; you can build a computer with science

19:21 MinceR; sounds like we're not living in "capitalism"

19:21 MinceR; here i sit, a software engineer, using means of production that i own and control.

19:21 matey; MinceR: from a libertarian standpoint your statement is correct

19:21 MinceR; cooperatives also exist

19:21 MinceR; (but there should probably be more)

19:21 matey; here i sit, a software engineer, using means of production that i own and control. <- you think you control that?

19:21 MinceR; yeah

19:22 matey; even if you did, it would be an exception

19:22 kingoffrance; matey, how is "work" measured?

19:22 MinceR; "the exception proves the rule"?

19:22 MinceR; i think work is measured in joules

19:22 matey; MinceR: if you could make your own computer, you would be farther from capitalism

19:22 MinceR; yeah

19:22 kingoffrance; MinceR, :)

19:22 matey; that day may be here sooner than we expect, but t isnt here yet

19:22 MinceR; hopefully i'll be able to do so eventually

19:22 matey; however, that would only demonstrate that a lot of things rms pushed for REALLY WERE watered down marxism

19:23 matey; even though he denies this, on the grounds that marxism is communism and communism is stalinism

19:23 MinceR; depends on what marxism is

19:23 matey; it absolutely does

19:23 MinceR; at its core marxism is a gross misunderstanding of economics

19:24 MinceR; starting with the Labor Theory of Value, which is trivially disproven

19:24 matey; at its core, economics is a gross misunderstanding of economics

19:24 kingoffrance; yes, all just word games

19:24 kingoffrance; we agree, thank you :)

19:24 matey; kingoffrance <- actually in this context i partially agree

19:24 matey; because now we are talking about economics

19:24 matey; and calling that "word games" is a bit of a slight to word games

19:25 kingoffrance; what do you call a "gross misunderstanding" ? same result

19:25 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

19:25 MinceR; Word Games 2022

19:25 matey; kingoffrance youre doing to language what scalia did to the constitution

19:25 matey; youre holding it to such a high standard that nothing means anything

19:25 DaemonFC; MinceR, One of those idiotic Bloomberg articles on how to deal with inflation.

19:26 DaemonFC; "Don't buy in bulk."

19:26 matey; but i dont think you usually do

19:26 kingoffrance; "specie is the only constitutional moeny in this country."

19:26 kingoffrance; how well did that work out?

19:26 MinceR; lol

19:26 kingoffrance; word games

19:26 DaemonFC; Yes, they plan on raising the price later and if you have plenty they won't get you for a while.

19:26 matey; but you do dance towards the edge of that, which i think is fantastic

19:26 DaemonFC; DON'T RUN! WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS!

19:26 DaemonFC; Bag of rice goes up another $10.

19:26 kingoffrance; noone is doing "constitution" so strraw man :)

19:26 kingoffrance; creditism is in, specie is out

19:31 *prost (~b9dc6531@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #techrights

19:34 *prost is now known as

19:37 DaemonFC; <matey> DaemonFC: im used to gay men going on about "breeders" but you give it a nice right-wing twist

19:37 DaemonFC; I don't think I fit neatly on a right or left-wing spectrum.

19:37 matey; i agree

19:38 DaemonFC; Because the right-wing social policies disgust me as much as the left-wing fiscal policies do.

19:38 matey; the twist you gave that particular thign was a right-wing twist to be sure

19:38 *zleap has quit (Quit: Leaving)

19:38 DaemonFC; Well, Stallman doesn't think people should have kids either.

19:38 matey; in fact if not for all your rants about left wing policies id place you on the left

19:38 matey; im not even sure you arent mistaken about which side youre really on :)

19:39 DaemonFC; The easiest way to deal with that is cut people off from government programs that encourage the worst and most unfit parents to have them to get at the government money.

19:39 matey; but its your right to believe you are where you are of course

19:39 DaemonFC; Libertarians believe that things should cost what they cost.

19:39 DaemonFC; And why should having kids be any different?

19:39 DaemonFC; Condoms are cheaper.

19:39 DaemonFC; Try those.

19:40 DaemonFC; If the government does spend any money on "reproductive" programs, it should be to prevent children from happening in the first place.

19:42 MinceR; yeah, stopping paying people to reproduce would help

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19:45 *matey (~matey@rjkzwfr2m827w.irc) has joined #techrights

19:46 matey; <MinceR> yeah, stopping paying people to reproduce would help <- whats the alternative?

19:46 matey; because whatever it is, its probably been tried already

19:46 only rich successful people should be able to reproduce

19:46 matey; i cant imagine what that would do to society

19:47 matey; the last thing we need is a bunch of bill gates and jeff bezos running around

19:47 matey; imagine a world full of those

19:47 matey; maybe a whole nation of mark zuckerburgs

19:47 matey; id take hell itself over that

19:47 matey; or hell, just bring me back to life once a week and shoot me again

19:48 *bnchs has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

19:48 mark zuckerburg cloning facility

19:48 kingoffrance; let me ask you this then matey : is creditism is valid and not fraud/etc. then what is the non-capitalist plan/mechanism to pay "national debt" ?

19:48 kingoffrance; *if

19:48 MinceR; matey: the alternative would be not doing so

19:48 matey; kingoffrance i honestly cannot parse that

19:48 matey; MinceR: thats fair given when i said earlier, but not an answer

19:49 kingoffrance; is the revolution going to pay the debt?

19:49 matey; s/when/what

19:49 kingoffrance; 30 trillion?

19:49 kingoffrance; its either valid or not

19:49 matey; kingoffrance: 30 trillion what?

19:49 matey; pay it to whom?

19:49 kingoffrance; https://www.usdebtclock.org/

19:49 TR Bot; U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

19:49 MinceR; matey: only people who can afford to take care of their offspring should reproduce -- or better yet, no humans should reproduce at all

19:49 MinceR; there are way too many humans on this planet

19:50 MinceR; it's unsustainable

19:50 matey; there are way too many humans on this planet <- i make this argument too

19:50 MinceR; also, bringing more people into this hell is probably immoral

19:50 matey; its a dangerous argument, but not making it could easily be more dangerous

19:50 matey; also, bringing more people into this hell is probably immoral <- im starting with the premise that people are most likely going to continue being brought in anyway

19:51 matey; im not saying whether its moral to do so or not, either way people are being born

19:51 more people should be gay problem solved

19:51 XRevan86; I'm learning a lot about the people I interact with during this war.

19:51 matey; if everyone is gay theyll just adopt instead (from aquaman)

19:51 XRevan86; It shows people's true colours.

19:52 MinceR; : unfortunately that is not a matter of decision

19:52 matey; they might even adopt twice as often just to overcompensate

19:52 XRevan86; : ?

19:52 *SomeH4x0r has quit (Quit: siren)

19:52 as anything its just a mater of marketing

19:53 matey; kingoffrance im not avoiding your question, im trying to expose the flaw in it

19:53 also its a mater of availability

19:53 kingoffrance; matey take your time :)

19:54 kingoffrance; just what debts are valid are what should be stiffed

19:54 kingoffrance; *and what

19:54 matey; kingoffrance: lets have a poke at christian martyrdom for a minute

19:54 matey; as long as the debt is paid, does it matter who pays it (if they are willing to do so)

19:54 matey; we are still talking about money here

19:55 XRevan86; (, )

19:55 kingoffrance; yes, but will the revolutionaries pay it or will they just parasitically pass it on

19:55 kingoffrance; isnt that just more "capitalism" ?

19:55 matey; if the debt belonged to everyone equally, and you paid it, it wouldnt change any bottom lines

19:56 matey; you could pay youtself the debt to yourself

19:56 kingoffrance; thats what the sov citizens do, they get arrested :D

19:57 matey; a universally shared debt is a universally forgiven/dissolved debt

19:57 matey; rather than an "unpaid" (remaining) one

19:57 matey; if you assume that its impossible to forgive or dissolve a debt, there are counterinstances

19:57 kingoffrance; so come the revolution it will disappear?

19:57 kingoffrance; im wondering how the transition will occur

19:58 kingoffrance; thats all

19:58 matey; for all intents and purposes, it will be paid off

19:58 kingoffrance; why would it get forgiven/dissolved? who? how? when?

19:58 matey; maybe a better question (really) would be to ask what purpose national debt serves

19:59 matey; why would it get forgiven/dissolved? <- suppose for the sake of argument, i owed you 100,000 pounds

19:59 TR News; EPO Industrial Actions Are Already Working | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/epo-industrial-actions/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/03/21/epo-industrial-actions/

19:59 TR Bot; EPO Industrial Actions Are Already Working | Techrights

19:59 matey; and i said "listen, about that, i have a mansion and a few successful businesses id like to transfer to you, what do you think"

19:59 matey; and you say "

8 PM, March 21

20:00 matey; no, dammit, i want the 100,000 pounds"

20:00 matey; and then the value of the pound dwindles to 10% or less of what it was in a year

20:00 matey; maybe i did as you demanded and paid you

20:00 matey; but you should have maybe taken the mansion and various successful businesses, you could have sold them for more

20:01 matey; the point is that theres more than one way to pay a debt

20:01 kingoffrance; sure, which is the capitalist way and which way is revolutionary?

20:01 kingoffrance; :)

20:01 matey; the capitalis would demand the money if it suited their short term goals better

20:01 matey; but a global revolution would take something worth more instead

20:02 matey; either way, people forgive debts now and then, even under capitalism

20:02 matey; which is why i think its a weird question (but not the only reason)

20:03 matey; even weirder than that is the debt is enumerated in units that would fall away under communism

20:03 matey; so suppose the debt is 100 trillian dollars

20:03 matey; whats a dollar?

20:03 matey; socialism would come first anyway

20:03 kingoffrance; it was specie. that already happened one round at least :D

20:03 kingoffrance; this is round 2 or 3 maybe :D

20:04 matey; its weird to think that if the world adopted socialism, they wouldnt cancel each others debts

20:04 matey; but even if they didnt, the debts would ultimately become 100 trillian times 0

20:04 MinceR; if the world adopted socialism, we'd all starve to death

20:04 matey; and thats easy to pay off

20:04 matey; <MinceR> if the world adopted socialism, we'd all starve to death <- youre being very inconsistent

20:05 matey; given your take on humanity mincer, we would all kill each other long before we could all starve

20:05 TR News; 19 techrights posts so far today. no social control media = getting things done.

20:05 MinceR; yeah, i'm the one throwing ill-defined words around :>

20:05 kingoffrance; well i dont want to bore this channel, so i think i will leave it there, thank you for talk

20:05 kingoffrance; s/bore/flood/

20:05 matey; hey i was just having a bit of fun there

20:05 TR News; Banana Pi BPI-R3 WiFi 6 router board features MediaTek Filogic 830/MT7986 SoC Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162808

20:05 TR Bot; Banana Pi BPI-R3 WiFi 6 router board features MediaTek Filogic 830/MT7986 SoC | Tux Machines

20:05 TR News; Junction: An Application Switcher to Open Files and Links Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162809

20:05 TR Bot; Junction: An Application Switcher to Open Files and Links | Tux Machines

20:06 matey; its true though, in your worldview we wouldnt all starve

20:06 TR News; "The proliferation of commons and crowdfunding might be one way to gradually and safely move towards a better and more fair world. Although Im kinda pessimistic that thatd be enough: maybe we need to evolve more robust and more sustainable economics generally" gemini://idiomdrottning.org/capital-and-copyright

20:07 matey; i will note that this started when dfc said welfare is the reason that pensions are in terrible shape

20:07 matey; and i said no capitalism is

20:08 matey; and then everybody defended capitalism but only dfc attacked welfare (actually mincer may have as well, for completeness)

20:08 matey; we live in interesting times

20:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@pumv3cb2rfinu.irc) has joined #techrights

20:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 28.31 k/sec., IPFS upstream 5.66 average k/sec., average swarm size 279.96

20:10 matey; capitalism requires more welfare than welfare does, thats one of the biggest problems with daemonfcs equation

20:11 matey; who gets bailed out more, banks and megacorps or deadbeat dads? that math shouldnt be too hard

20:11 matey; if you stopped bailing out the banks and megacorps you could take some of the loose change out of the giant pocket youd need for all the savings

20:12 matey; and start a giant baby factory (not that you should do so, for reasons mincer pointed out)

20:12 MinceR; "Every species can smell its own extinction. The last ones left won't have a pretty time of it. And in ten years, maybe less, the human race will just be a bedtime story for their children. A myth."

20:13 matey; so saying welfare is the reason pensions suck is-- patently absurd

20:13 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162810

20:13 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines

20:13 matey; mincer: what year was that written

20:13 MinceR; 1994

20:14 MinceR; it's from In The Mouth Of Madness

20:14 matey; i worry about sustainability too, im not convinced that capitalism can bring it about

20:14 TR News; Banana Pi router board features WiFi 6 and dual 2.5GbE http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162808#comment-33140

20:14 TR Bot; Banana Pi BPI-R3 WiFi 6 router board features MediaTek Filogic 830/MT7986 SoC | Tux Machines

20:15 matey; energy companies seem pretty hellbent on making the matrix an increasingly relevant metaphor

20:15 matey; "youre just fucking batteries"

20:15 MinceR; ew

20:16 matey; oh i see what you did there. but then, that industry already exists

20:17 MinceR; :>

20:20 TR News; howtoforge has outsourced to clownflate (malware). So sad...

20:22 TR News; Linux kernel 5.17 Released! How to Install it in Ubuntu 22.04 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162798#comment-33141

20:22 TR Bot; How to Install Linux Kernel 5.17 on Ubuntu 21.10 | Tux Machines

20:25 MinceR; (audio:important) https://hugelolcdn.com/v/817375.mp4

20:25 Alternative link; Cloudflare: hugelolcdn.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://hugelolcdn.com/v/817375.mp4

20:29 TR News; Christopher Smart: Joining a bridged IRC network on Element (Matrix) https://blog.christophersmart.com/2022/03/21/joining-a-bridged-irc-network-on-element-matrix/

20:29 TR Bot; Joining a bridged IRC network on Element (Matrix) Just another Linux geek

20:31 *CrystalMath (~coderain@pmzkstc8k8zvc.irc) has joined #techrights

20:35 TR News; Wow. Only one Debian Developer in 1 month. https://bits.debian.org/2022/03/new-developers-2022-02.html the large corporations (such as Gulag) are ruining Debian by driving talent away http://techrights.org/2022/01/14/debian-social-contract/

20:35 TR Bot; New Debian Developers and Maintainers (January and February 2022) - Bits from Debian

20:35 TR Bot; Scientific Excellence and the Debian Social Contract | Techrights

20:36 TR News; Keeping ones home tidy 2022 Blog GNUGuix https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2022/keeping-ones-home-tidy/

20:36 TR Bot; Keeping ones home tidy 2022 Blog GNUGuix

20:36 TR News; Top 7 Debian-Based Distros to Try If You Want an Ubuntu Alternative Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162811

20:36 TR Bot; Top 7 Debian-Based Distros to Try If You Want an Ubuntu Alternative | Tux Machines

20:37 matey; not to mention that the rate at which megacorps are producing useless shit to try to sustain themselves will probably increase more rapidly than the number of people having babies to try to get money out of the deal

20:38 matey; nobody wants capitalism, they want a sane version of it

20:38 TR News; Better headline would be, Microsoft transmits malware, blames "Open Source" https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/03/developer-sabotages-open-source-software-package.html

20:38 TR Bot; Sabotages Open-Source Software Package - Schneier on Security

20:38 *bnchs__ (~bnchs@xtiawgj44uy6k.irc) has joined #techrights

20:38 matey; like someone who doesnt want a divorce, they just want their spouse to stop being a monster

20:39 thats sexist

20:39 matey; i defy you tell me how

20:39 TR News; Bruce Schneier is increasingly speaking like a government and corporate shill rather than advocate of real security

20:39 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162812

20:39 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

20:39 why the spouse?

20:40 matey; what does a bad marriage have to do with sexism?

20:40 TR News; A1 Telekom to be held accountable for violations in Belarus - Access Now https://www.accessnow.org/a1-telekom-belarus/

20:40 Alternative link; Cloudflare: accessnow.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.accessnow.org/a1-telekom-belarus/

20:40 TR Bot; A1 Telekom to be held accountable for violations in Belarus - Access Now

20:41 spouse dosent have gender?!

20:41 matey; it literally doesnt

20:41 matey; its a non-gendered term

20:42 bnchs__; uhhh

20:42 bnchs__; what happened here

20:42 TR News; "Encryption is a great benefit to take advantage of, especially when it comes to hosting web sites. But how exactly do TLS certificates work? In this episode, Jay and Joao discuss foundational concepts surrounding certificates, as well as some advice and recommended practices." https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bbxhxFI1wm8

20:42 TR Bot; Enterprise Linux Security Episode 22 - Certificates - Invidious

20:42 matey; bnchs__ we were talking about welfare

20:43 bnchs__; you were all talking about welfare hours ago

20:43 matey; /me scrolls up

20:43 matey; less than an hour ago

20:44 matey; maybe dfc was talking about it hours ago

20:44 bnchs__; yeah dfc

20:44 matey; its a topic he gets on more than once a day most likely

20:44 i dint dfc is a chatbot

20:44 bnchs__; this has gone derailed beyond tech

20:44 matey; its related to tech

20:45 bnchs__; how

20:45 matey; we talked about mincer making his own computer

20:45 matey; and its related very much to the corporate takeover of free software

20:45 matey; which rms might address in april (but probably not)

20:45 MinceR is a foundry owner?

20:45 matey; no foundry!

20:45 bnchs__; well

20:45 matey; lea.h was talking about it last night

20:46 bnchs__; when i joined, i instantly got greeted with "thats sexist!"

20:46 matey; non-english-as-a-first-language-speaker thought spouse was a gendered term

20:46 MinceR; no foundry yet

20:47 spouse/husband

20:47 matey; spouse can also mean wife (or whatever)

20:47 bnchs__; spouse can mean anything (husband or wife)

20:47 i could start a case about it

20:47 matey; it means married person

20:49 i believe people usually use spouse referring to the wife

20:49 matey; you can believe whatever pleases you

20:50 get an AI program to work on it

20:51 bnchs__; we don't need AI

20:51 bnchs__; we have dictionaries

20:52 its not about pleasure i couldnt care less

20:52 matey; many of the most interesting discussions ive had online were with eastern europeans

20:52 psydroid2; spouse can mean both 'husband' and 'wife' in English

20:52 matey; often because of different takes on english

20:52 psydroid2; other languages have separate words for them

20:53 psydroid2; 'echtgenoot' and 'echtgenote' in Dutch

20:53 psydroid2; 'esposo' and 'esposa' in Spanish

20:53 matey; it doesnt get this interesting when talking to people in asia who learned english later

20:53 DaemonFC; <MinceR> if the world adopted socialism, we'd all starve to death

20:53 matey; but eastern europeans are amazing

20:53 DaemonFC; Nobody will pay farmers a fair price for their food? There's no food.

20:54 DaemonFC; There is state mandated prices for the no food though.

20:54 MinceR; lol

20:54 DaemonFC; Here, have another Commie Famine.

20:54 bnchs__; matey: how?

20:54 MinceR; you get to buy 0 units of FoodProductA for 0 times the state-mandated price of FoodProductA

20:54 DaemonFC; MinceR, I've never been thrilled about the US system.

20:54 bnchs__; wait he was eastern european?

20:54 DaemonFC; But at least there was SOMETHING to eat.

20:54 matey; bnchs__ like this thing where spouse is allegedly gendered, or possibly weighted towards one gender more

20:54 DaemonFC; And you don't get that in Communism.

20:55 DaemonFC; How does Cuba manage?

20:55 DaemonFC; They bust up your camera and expel you from the country if you take pictures of their supermarkets.

20:55 bnchs__; i didn't have cyrillic font

20:55 DaemonFC; "Why is this written in Terrorist?"

20:55 MinceR; :>

20:55 capitalism has state mandated prices for the no food

20:56 its called taxes

20:57 MinceR; https://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/mildly-terrifying-images-6.jpg

20:57 Alternative link; Cloudflare: pleated-jeans.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/mildly-terrifying-images-6.jpg

20:57 and they also have state mandated prices for the no food if they so chose

20:57 matey; <DaemonFC> But at least there was SOMETHING to eat. <- daemonfc when was the worst commie famine in history?

20:57 DaemonFC; They dole out food stamps pretty easily.

20:58 DaemonFC; So it's not like mass starvation going on here.

20:58 DaemonFC; <matey> <DaemonFC> But at least there was SOMETHING to eat. <- daemonfc when was the worst commie famine in history?

20:58 DaemonFC; Well, most Communist uprisings have famines.

20:59 DaemonFC; But there were questions about whether Mao's Great Leap Forward was designed to murder people and just look like a "transition" and "unfortunate".

20:59 most Communist uprisings are caused by famines.

20:59 DaemonFC; They directed food to the people who they wanted to have some.

9 PM, March 21

21:00 besides russian communism was just fascism under disguise

21:01 was and is

21:01 TR News; This is written like an AMD/x86 commercial. Many quotes, not much fact-checking. https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/amd_epyc_cpu/

21:01 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/amd_epyc_cpu/

21:01 TR Bot; AMD rolls out new, pricier mega-cache Epyc server processors The Register

21:02 *matey has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:02 TR News; Worse than DRM? https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/epson_payments_issue/

21:02 Alternative link; Cloudflare: theregister.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/21/epson_payments_issue/

21:02 TR Bot; Users unable to print over Epson payments snafu The Register

21:05 TR News; Is the new EARN IT Act new wine in an old bottle? Whatever it is, were not buying it. - Public Knowledge https://publicknowledge.org/is-the-new-earn-it-act-new-wine-in-an-old-bottle-whatever-it-is-were-not-buying-it/

21:05 TR Bot; Is the new EARN IT Act new wine in an old bottle? Whatever it is, were not buying it. - Public Knowledge

21:06 TR News; Alleviating some legitimate concerns, Richard M. Stallman (RMS), the FSFs indisputable and sole founder, will be giving an FSF talk in a few weeks, according to this latest FSF post http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/the-state-of-the-free-software-movement/

21:06 TR Bot; Richard M. Stallman (RMS) Did Not Speak at LibrePlanet, But Hell Give an FSF Talk Very Soon (The State of the Free Software Movement) | Techrights

21:06 TR News; The management of the EPO is feeling stressed about the impending strike and the industrial actions which imperial the fake productivity long touted by corrupt EPO management http://techrights.org/2022/03/21/epo-industrial-actions/

21:06 TR Bot; EPO Industrial Actions Are Already Working | Techrights

21:07 AdmFubar; https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-phishing-toolkit-lets-anyone-create-fake-chrome-browser-windows/

21:07 Alternative link; Cloudflare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-phishing-toolkit-lets-anyone-create-fake-chrome-browser-windows/

21:07 TR Bot; New Phishing toolkit lets anyone create fake Chrome browser windows

21:07 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:07 TR News; Rust is shit. https://gankra.github.io/blah/fix-rust-pointers/

21:07 TR Bot; Rust's Unsafe Pointer Types Need An Overhaul - Faultlore

21:07 AdmFubar; https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/western-digital-app-bug-gives-elevated-privileges-in-windows-macos/

21:07 Alternative link; Cloudflare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/western-digital-app-bug-gives-elevated-privileges-in-windows-macos/

21:07 TR Bot; Western Digital app bug gives elevated privileges in Windows, macOS

21:08 *matey (~matey@xv9cfpnhn2ihe.irc) has joined #techrights

21:08 *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

21:09 TR News; Funny how Rust "experts" typically huddle around Microsoft proprietary software instead of Freedom-respecting software. They also heavily censor: http://techrights.org/2021/04/20/mpaa-riaa-still-bossing-github/ http://techrights.org/2020/06/18/rusty-censorship/ http://techrights.org/2021/11/22/microsofts-github-is-hugely-toxic-and-it-censors-critics-of-corporations-or-people-sceptical-of-those-in-power/

21:09 TR Bot; Microsoft as a Censorship Machine Working to Undermine Free Software and Code Sharing (Also Sharing in General) | Techrights

21:09 TR Bot; Beware Mozilla and Rust, Theyre Not Friends of Free Software or Even of Free Speech | Techrights

21:09 TR Bot; Microsofts GitHub is Hugely Toxic and It Censors Critics of Corporations or People Sceptical of Those in Power | Techrights

21:10 TR News; ICBM in "the cloud"... BOOM! Clown computing. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/customer-success-stories-red-hat-openshift-paves-way-toward-hybrid-cloud

21:10 TR Bot; Customer success stories: Red Hat OpenShift paves the way toward hybrid cloud

21:11 TR News; "This is a weekly report from the CPE (Community Platform Engineering) Team. If you have any questions or feedback, please respond to this report or contact us on #redhat-cpe channel on libera.shat (libera shat/)." https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/cpe-weekly-update-week-of-march-14th-18th/

21:11 TR Bot; CPE Weekly Update Week of March 14th 18th Fedora Community Blog

21:13 TR News; Why is this scare back so suddenly? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162251#comment-33144

21:13 TR Bot; Security Leftovers | Tux Machines

21:13 TR News; GOG Games Festival is live with lots on sale and some demos up | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/gog-games-festival-is-live-with-lots-on-sale-and-some-demos-up

21:13 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/gog-games-festival-is-live-with-lots-on-sale-and-some-demos-up

21:13 TR Bot; Games Festival is live with lots on sale and some demos up | GamingOnLinux

21:15 TR News; Nontech cargo cults https://www.fosslife.org/importance-software-usability-testing

21:15 TR Bot; The Importance of Software Usability Testing

21:15 *matey has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:16 *psydroid2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:16 TR News; Many crap or "bullshit jobs" want us to make the false assumption that coders (software developers) cannot figure out how to make a decent GUI. They made up buzzwords for themselves, e.g. "UX".

21:16 TR News; "Who is WordPress actually made for? Join our host, WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she explores this controversial question and three things that can help find the answer." https://wordpress.org/news/2022/03/episode-27-is-wordpress-made-for-me/

21:16 TR Bot; Episode 27: Is WordPress Made for Me? WordPress News

21:17 TR News; Mozilla pushing DRM and using DRM to market Firefox; deeply misguided company that does not wish to understand the core user(base) https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/extensions-addons/firefox-extension-helps-bring-movie-magic-to-theaters-near-you/ http://techrights.org/wiki/Mozilla

21:17 Alternative link; Cloudflare: mozilla.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/extensions-addons/firefox-extension-helps-bring-movie-magic-to-theaters-near-you/

21:17 TR Bot; Firefox Extension Helps Bring Movie Magic To Theaters Near You

21:17 TR Bot; Mozilla - Techrights

21:19 TR News; Linux/kernel: scheduler updates for v5.18 https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/YjhZUezhnamHAl0H@gmail.com/

21:19 TR Bot; [GIT PULL] scheduler updates for v5.18 - Ingo Molnar

21:19 psydruid; if AMD processors are so great, why do they need to be marketed so heavily?

21:19 TR News; Rakudo Weekly News: 2022.12 Releasomatic https://rakudoweekly.blog/2022/03/21/2022-12-releasomatic/

21:19 TR Bot; 2022.12 Releasomatic Rakudo Weekly News

21:19 schestowitz-TR; psydruid: good point

21:20 schestowitz-TR; psydruid: count how many AMD articles phoronix did today

21:20 schestowitz-TR; I think it's 33% of the total

21:20 schestowitz-TR; maybe more

21:20 schestowitz-TR; and some are AMD/Microsoft ads

21:20 schestowitz-TR; I lost respect for Michael

21:20 schestowitz-TR; he cherry-picks commits from AMD

21:20 psydruid; I think there is more than meets the eye

21:20 schestowitz-TR; or maybe they send him emails to highlight these to him

21:20 schestowitz-TR; they bought him

21:21 schestowitz-TR; AMD is run by IBMer

21:21 psydruid; AMD is comparatively not doing as well as we have are made to believe and something is brewing

21:21 schestowitz-TR; IBM is notorious for media emasculation

21:21 psydruid; -we have

21:21 psydruid; -have*

21:23 TR News; TornadoVM 0.13 is out, but it needs to delete Microsoft GitHub to be taken seriously https://www.tornadovm.org/blog GitHub is proprietary prison with NSA in charge

21:23 TR Bot; Blog | TornadoVM

21:23 psydruid; AMD is tied to Microsoft even more than Intel is

21:23 schestowitz-TR; did you watch my video?

21:23 schestowitz-TR; I mentioned pluton

21:23 psydruid; I may not have watched it

21:24 schestowitz-TR; they seem to compete over Windows

21:24 schestowitz-TR; psydruid: it's from today

21:24 schestowitz; The State of the Free Software Movementhttp://techrights.org/2022/03/21/selling-microsoft/

21:24 schestowitz; it's about phoronix

21:24 schestowitz; the title does not say so

21:25 TR News; "Composable code describes classes and functions that can be readily combined to create more powerful higher-level constructs. Composability compares favorably to alternative forms of code reuse such as object-oriented inheritance" https://www.cloudsavvyit.com/15780/what-is-composable-code-and-how-can-you-create-it/

21:25 TR Bot; What Is Composable Code and How Can You Create It? CloudSavvy IT

21:26 TR News; "You assume the role of CEO of a fresh electronics company tasked with hiring employees, designing your office and turning it all into a "ruthless money-making machine"." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/now-you-too-can-underpay-everyone-in-office-management-101

21:26 Alternative link; Cloudflare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/now-you-too-can-underpay-everyone-in-office-management-101

21:26 TR Bot; you too can underpay everyone in Office Management 101 | GamingOnLinux

21:27 psydruid; they have to compete over Windows because their fortunes are built on it

21:28 TR News; How to conflate fakecoins with security, mostly by abusing the term "crypto" - Copyleft Currents https://heathermeeker.com/2022/03/21/crypto-for-the-rest-of-us-part-ii-what-is-proof-of-stake-and-why-should-you-care/

21:28 TR Bot; Crypto for the Rest of Us, Part II: What is Proof of Stake and Why Should You Care? Copyleft Currents

21:29 TR News; "ASF Board management and oversight of the business affairs of the corporation in accordance with the Foundation's bylaws." https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-weekly-news-round18

21:29 TR Bot; The Apache Weekly News Round-up: week ending 18 March 2022 : The Apache Software Foundation Blog

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21:39 MinceR; (cat) https://ircz.de/p/22031865

21:39 TR Bot; IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.imgur.com/yFSRotv.jpg created on 2022-03-18 22:02:19.234839

21:39 AdmFubar; https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/03/senators-introduce-right-to-repair-legislation.html

21:39 Alternative link; Cloudflare: nakedcapitalism.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/03/senators-introduce-right-to-repair-legislation.html

21:39 TR Bot; Senators Introduce Right to Repair Legislation | naked capitalism

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21:45 *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

21:54 AdmFubar; https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/grubhub-lawsuit-dc-attorney-general

21:54 TR Bot; sues Grubhub over inflated menu prices - Protocol

21:54 AdmFubar; https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/biden-american-cybersecurity-russia

21:54 TR Bot; urges American firms to 'harden' cyber-defenses against Russia - Protocol

21:55 *prost (~68f44d50@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #techrights

21:55 AdmFubar; Love the blurb about apple maps... sounds like it was work like it usually does https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/apple-suffers-international-outage

21:55 TR Bot; services taken down by Monday outage - Protocol

21:55 AdmFubar; https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-settlement-anti-union-planning

21:55 TR Bot; settled case over anti-union planning docs - Protocol

21:56 MinceR; :>

21:56 AdmFubar; Pot? Kettle? Kettle? Pot?? https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/meta-facebook-instagram-ban-russia

21:56 TR Bot; labels Meta 'extremist,' outlaws Facebook, Instagram - Protocol

21:58 *matey (~matey@g3izecpprtp7g.irc) has joined #techrights

21:59 AdmFubar; https://www.rawstory.com/r-2656999569/

21:59 TR Bot; Anonymous disrupts Kremlin's propaganda with anti-Putin printer attack: report - Raw Story - Celebrating 18 Years of Independent Journalism

21:59 Alternative link; Cloudflare: rawstory.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.rawstory.com/r-2656999569/

21:59 matey; /me tries a chopstick hack like rms

10 PM, March 21

22:00 matey; somehow my pair of chopsticks has turned into half a pair

22:00 matey; so im holding a spoon like a chopstick and using the actual chopstick to complete the set

22:01 matey; ive tried two spoons, it doesnt work as well as this

22:02 *zedomatic has quit (Quit)

22:02 matey; /me would still prefer a proper set

22:02 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

22:04 *prost has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

22:06 *prost (~17b8303d@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #techrights

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22:07 prost; the internet is breaking down

22:07 matey; mines been shit all evening

22:12 *psymin has quit (connection closed)

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22:12 schestowitz-TR; hi prost

22:12 schestowitz-TR; sharon prost :-)?

22:12 *psymin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

22:16 prost; https://wikiborn.com/sharon-prost/

22:16 Alternative link; Cloudflare: wikiborn.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://wikiborn.com/sharon-prost/

22:16 TR Bot; Sharon Prost Wiki, Wife, Net Worth, Age, Height, Girlfriend, and Biography

22:16 prost; her air is blue

22:16 schestowitz-TR; yes, we wrote about her many times

22:16 schestowitz-TR; she is retired now

22:17 schestowitz-TR; no, she was a chief judge at CAFC

22:17 prost; hair is blue

22:17 schestowitz-TR; eyes are blue

22:17 schestowitz-TR; hair is brokwn, I think, and dyed

22:17 schestowitz-TR; but that does not matter

22:18 schestowitz; "Sharon Prost was born in the Newburyport, Massachusetts, United States in 1951. So Lets check out some interesting details of him."

22:18 schestowitz; She is 71

22:18 prost; thats what is in that page

22:18 schestowitz; retired at 70

22:18 matey; her hair is blue, but can she code?

22:18 schestowitz; ha, reference to bully db

22:19 schestowitz; prost: seems like random crap

22:19 schestowitz; "

22:19 schestowitz; Shoe Size

22:19 schestowitz; 8 UK

22:19 schestowitz; Eye Color

22:19 schestowitz; Black

22:19 schestowitz; Hair Color

22:19 schestowitz; Blue

22:19 schestowitz; "

22:19 schestowitz; That does not make sense

22:19 schestowitz; even the height

22:19 schestowitz; maybe some random nonsense

22:19 schestowitz; the web is full of webspam

22:20 matey; /me wonders how many links on gemini are to sites on the web

22:20 matey; they should really measure that

22:21 leah; i... was summoned. but i've been tidying my lab all day

22:21 leah; i threw out... 50 bags of trash. possibly more. i'm going to have god-like efficiency now, when i wake up

22:21 matey; but not rowe-bot efficiency

22:21 leah; now, i'm going to become a rowebot. i'm insane when organized

22:22 leah; thanks again for the chat earlier

22:22 matey; im still excited about it

22:22 matey; particularly the news

22:22 matey; i was walking outside and feeling a bit glum

22:22 matey; and then i thought about homemade cpus and smiled a little

22:22 matey; true story

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=> https://znc.in) ↺ https://znc.in)

22:27 *matey (~matey@d4f6rigi2emqn.irc) has joined #techrights

22:27 matey; sodding "highspeed"

22:28 matey; its been dialup all day

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22:32 matey; did anyone notice if quiliro gave a talk about rms at libreplanet? it would have been a lightning talk

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11 PM, March 21

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23:06 bnchs__; i'm trying to maintain a decade-old project

23:07 bnchs__; well a decade-old abandoned one

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23:09 psydroid8; if it compiles ship it

23:10 bnchs__; it doesn't

23:11 bnchs__; it's mostly due to outdated automake

23:12 psydroid8; I would replace the build system with something sane(r)

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23:33 DaemonFC; https://store.steampowered.com/app/1341890/Corridor_7_Alien_Invasion/

23:33 Alternative link; Cloudflare: steampowered.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://store.steampowered.com/app/1341890/Corridor_7_Alien_Invasion/

23:33 TR Bot; Corridor 7: Alien Invasion on Steam

23:33 DaemonFC; The game ran fine on my 486 with DOS.

23:33 DaemonFC; Steam says it needs Windows 7?

23:34 XRevan86; DaemonFC: Obviously there's a compatibility layer inside, it might.

23:36 *bnchs__ has quit (connection closed)

23:36 DaemonFC; "The Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda published, then later removed, a report that the Russian Ministry of Defense had recorded 9,861 Russian Armed forces deaths in the war in Ukraine.

23:36 DaemonFC; The report from the tabloid originally read, "According to the Russian Defense Ministry, during the special operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces lost 9861 people killed and 16153 wounded."

23:36 DaemonFC; CNN analyzed the HTML code in the website which indicates that the article was published on Monday at 12:09 a.m. Moscow time.

23:36 DaemonFC; Seconds after CNN read the original article at 9:56 p.m. Moscow time according to the HTML code the story was updated and removed all references to the death count. That update on the outlet's website came shortly after the article began to get attention from social media posts, which referenced the death count."

23:37 XRevan86; KP claims to have been hacked.

23:38 XRevan86; They're full of shit either way, but which way it is is a question without an answer.

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IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, March 21, 2022