IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Friday, July 29, 2022

beginning of new day, July 29

00:00 TR News; KF5s big ramp of deprecations to KF6 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167775 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/KF5s_big_ramp_of_deprecations_to_KF6.shtml #news

00:00 TR Bot; KF5s big ramp of deprecations to KF6 | Tux Machines

00:00 TR Bot; KF5s big ramp of deprecations to KF6

00:00 TR News; Godot 3.5 RC 8, Godot 4.0 alpha 13, and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167776 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/Godot_3.5_RC_8,_Godot_4.0_alpha_13,_and_More.shtml #news

00:00 TR Bot; Godot 3.5 RC 8, Godot 4.0 alpha 13, and More | Tux Machines

00:00 TR Bot; Godot 3.5 RC 8, Godot 4.0 alpha 13, and More

00:01 matey; psydroid: this is pretty true to the original story

00:01 matey; for whatever reason they decided to go very original with the visuals

00:02 XRevan86; "but i imagine this is incredibly russian" <- " " :)

00:03 XRevan86; matey: https://torpod.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/vhod.jpg this can hint on what that phrase means

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00:03 TR News; Severe flaw. : Exploitable remotely. Yes, Microsoft Windows, but CISA goes out of its way to cover that up. "C:\Program files\MELSOF" https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-20-212-02

00:03 TR Bot; Mitsubishi Electric Factory Automation Engineering Software (Update C) | CISA

00:04 XRevan86; Don't know how to even translate " .". Maybe "Restricted A."?

00:04 TR News; CISA/NSA: back doors are desirable, just be sure to keep quiet about them...

00:04 matey; :)

00:05 TR News; "Due to an XML external entity reference, the software parses XML in the backup/restore functionality without XML security flags, which may lead to a XXE attack while restoring the backup." https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-207-01

00:05 TR Bot; Inductive Automation Ignition | CISA

00:05 TR News; Openwashing https://www.phoronix.com/news/Raptor-Arctic-Tern-BMC

00:05 TR Bot; Launches Arctic Tern As An Open-Source BMC Solution - Phoronix

00:05 XRevan86; Don't know what translator had in mind with "Trespassers Will". "Will" what? Shot on Sight?

00:06 TR News; Use of a Broken or Risky Cryptographic Algorithmhttps://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-207-03

00:07 matey; thats the joke

00:07 matey; there WAS a sign that said something like

00:07 matey; trespassers will be shot

00:07 matey; but half the sign is missing

00:07 matey; so it just says

00:07 matey; trespassers will

00:07 matey; and will is short for william

00:07 TR News; Brittany Day publishing HEY HI Bullshit. This is what happens when you let MARKETING people (or geneticists) become a "voice" for Linux 'security'... https://linuxsecurity.com/features/what-is-the-impact-of-ai-on-cybersecurity-3-interesting-use-cases

00:07 TR Bot; What Is the Impact of AI on Cybersecurity? 3 Interesting Use Cases

00:08 matey; so its assumed (with intended naivety) that will is a person who once lived there

00:08 XRevan86; matey: That works. More grim that the source though :)

00:08 matey; well, it doesnt have to say "be shot"

00:08 matey; could be "be prosecuted"

00:08 matey; but its in the woods, so its just a guess

00:08 XRevan86; Left to the imagination.

00:08 TR News; LOL. "Are current AI trends and principles part of your cybersecurity strategy?" It's all in the HEY HI. Watch our for sinister HEY HI! HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI

00:08 matey; indeed

00:09 matey; its one of those jokes that the kids might not get

00:09 matey; but the grownups reading to their kids can giggle at

00:09 matey; bullwinkle was FULL of those

00:09 matey; and some were even a bit naughty

00:10 TR News; I didn't know servers were clowns and algorithms are "HEY HI" until journalism died and the vacuum got filled with lying marketing bunnies

00:10 matey; at one point theyre being chased by a "grand vizier"

00:10 matey; which rhymes with "brassiere"

00:10 matey; and one person mishears this

00:10 TR News; "The affected product is vulnerable to an out-of-bounds write that may allow an attacker to overwrite values in memory, causing a denial-of-service condition or potentially bricking the device" https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-207-04

00:10 TR Bot; MOXA NPort 5110 | CISA

00:11 matey; and repeats "and one grand brassiere"

00:11 matey; "yeah..."

00:11 matey; and this is very much a kids show, dating back to black and white

00:11 matey; but its funny

00:16 TR News; libadwaita: Fixing Usability Problems on the Linux Desktop Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167777 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/libadwaita:_Fixing_Usability_Problems_on_the_Linux_Desktop.shtml #news

00:16 TR Bot; libadwaita: Fixing Usability Problems on the Linux Desktop | Tux Machines

00:16 TR Bot; libadwaita: Fixing Usability Problems on the Linux Desktop

00:17 matey; Antitrust Action Against Microsoft is Well Overdue <- wont happen

00:17 XRevan86; https://youtu.be/aYqA58N3sEE

00:17 TR Bot; https://invidious.weblibre.org/watch?v=aYqA58N3sEE

00:17 TR Bot; invidious.weblibre.org | Winnie The Pooh The Little Black Rain Cloud - Invidious

00:17 matey; antitrust vs microsoft is like musket vs a fleet of drones

00:18 TR News; Microsoft does not need to buy Canonical if it already controls Canonical https://www.neowin.net/news/ubuntu-confidential-virtual-machines-come-to-microsoft-azure/

00:18 TR Bot; Ubuntu Confidential Virtual Machines come to Microsoft Azure - Neowin

00:19 matey; thats the one, XRevan86

00:19 TR News; Security: Bugs, Samba Flaw, CISAs Deja Vu, and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167778 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/Security:_Bugs,_Samba_Flaw,_CISA%27s_Deja_Vu,_and_More.shtml #news

00:19 TR Bot; Security: Bugs, Samba Flaw, CISA's Deja Vu, and More | Tux Machines

00:19 TR Bot; Security: Bugs, Samba Flaw, CISA's Deja Vu, and More

00:19 XRevan86; matey: A whole action scene :)

00:19 matey; a very familiar one from childhood

00:20 *XRevan86 never saw it.

00:20 matey; we had that on BETAmax

00:20 XRevan86; Until now of course.

00:20 matey; it must be weird to see the western version

00:20 matey; for the first time

00:20 XRevan86; I've seen some episodes of it, not this one.

00:20 TR News; I wish I could taper off my meds gemini://hyperreal.coffee/gemlog/2022-07-28-wish-I-could-taper-off-meds.gmi

00:21 matey; the animation was very familiar for those who saw the book illustrations

00:21 matey; id say the book was more old-fashioned (understandably) and the animation was more cute

00:22 matey; but they were similar nonetheless

00:22 matey; obviously the book animations were sparse by comparison, so a lot had to be imagined and elaborated on

00:22 matey; and i hate disney, but i like tron and this as well

00:22 XRevan86; matey: Disney makes a lot of good stuff.

00:23 matey; the original tron was disney

00:23 matey; they do

00:23 XRevan86; Which is practically a given considering the sheer volume %)

00:23 matey; theyre a bit like debian

00:23 matey; they get some very talented people

00:23 matey; then treat them like shit

00:23 matey; then benefit from their efforts

00:23 XRevan86; matey: I've seen Tron, never really got into it though.

00:24 matey; it helps to be a kid in the 80s

00:24 XRevan86; The visuals are interesting but the story is not my thing.

00:24 matey; if the idea is to find tron amazing

00:24 matey; it isnt strictly required, but it surely helps

00:24 XRevan86; Tron: Legacy is terrible regardless at least :)

00:24 matey; yeah a lot of it was visuals

00:25 matey; yeah but im a sucker for short black hair

00:25 TR News; Fedora / Red Hat Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167779 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/Fedora__Red_Hat_Leftovers.shtml #news

00:25 matey; /me blames barbara feldon

00:25 TR Bot; Fedora / Red Hat Leftovers | Tux Machines

00:25 TR Bot; Fedora / Red Hat Leftovers

00:26 DaemonFC; Okay I give up.

00:26 DaemonFC; Now I'm just in the Matrix rooms bridged into Libera so that idiot can't get rid of me directly anymore with a k-line.

00:31 TR News; While Lenovo BLOCKS Linux for booting on other laptop, serving Microsoft's agenda... https://www.digitaltrends.com/dtdeals/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-carbon-gen-9-deal-lenovo-july-2022/

00:31 TR Bot; This Lenovo ThinkPad with Linux just got a $1,000 price cut | Digital Trends

00:31 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167780 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/howtos_2.shtml #news

00:31 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

00:31 TR Bot; today's howtos

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00:38 TR News; Canonical Says It "Want[s] to be the Best Open-Source Company in the World", Then Promotes Microsofts Proprietary Surveillance While Microsoft Attacks Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167781

00:38 TR Bot; Canonical Says It "Want[s] to be the Best Open-Source Company in the World", Then Promotes Microsoft's Proprietary Surveillance While Microsoft Attacks Linux | Tux Machines

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00:51 DaemonFC; For whatever reason, LIBERAL chat doesn't try to do anything about me when I'm on there through Matrix.

00:56 TR News; Server: pg_ivm 1.2, System Administration, CNCF, Google, and Microsofts Ongoing Demise Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167782 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/IVM_Development_Group_is_pleased_to_announce_the_release_of_pg_ivm_12.shtml #news

00:56 TR Bot; Server: pg_ivm 1.2, System Administration, CNCF, Google, and Microsoft's Ongoing Demise | Tux Machines

00:56 TR Bot; Server: pg_ivm 1.2, System Administration, CNCF, Google, and Microsoft's Ongoing Demise

00:57 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167783 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/programming_2.shtml #news

00:57 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines

00:57 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers

00:58 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167784 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/leftovers_2.shtml #news

00:58 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines

00:58 TR Bot; today's leftovers

00:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.43 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.38 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

00:59 TR News; Links 28/07/2022: Canonical is Promoting Microsoft Again, OPNsense 22.7 Released, and Apache ShenYu Becomes Top-Level Project (TLP) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/28/canonical-promoting-microsoft/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/28/canonical-promoting-microsoft/

00:59 TR Bot; Links 28/07/2022: Canonical is Promoting Microsoft Again, OPNsense 22.7 Released, and Apache ShenYu Becomes Top-Level Project (TLP) | Techrights

1 AM, July 29

01:01 TR News; Microsoft apologists at it again https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60654.html

01:01 TR Bot; mjg59 | UEFI rootkits and UEFI secure boot

01:02 TR News; 10 years ago: "Much to our regret, Garrett has recently been an apologist for Microsofts anti-competitive UEFI scheme" http://techrights.org/2012/11/05/matthew-garrett/

01:02 TR Bot; Garrett a Microsoft Apologist | Techrights

01:03 TR News; The person who caused the problems now pretends to be the rescuer offering redemption.

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01:04 TR News; Proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary, proprietary... some "alternatives", eh? https://www.maketecheasier.com/google-forms-alternatives/

01:04 TR Bot; 8 Free Alternatives to Google Forms - Make Tech Easier

01:04 TR News; How to install LeoCAD on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=yINeROgUcHY | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/yINeROgUcHY

01:04 TR Bot; How to install LeoCAD on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious

01:06 TR News; Starship Troopers: Terran Command. Finally a Great Video Game After the Movie! - Boiling Steam https://boilingsteam.com/starship-troopers-terran-command-finally-a-great-video-game-after-the-movie/ Source: boilingsteam | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//boilingsteam.com/starship-troopers-terran-command-finally-a-great-video-game-after-the-movie/

01:06 TR Bot; Starship Troopers: Terran Command. Finally a Great Video Game After the Movie! - Boiling Steam

01:08 TR News; The original icanhazip.com lives on, but the other services are going offline. https://major.io/2022/07/28/extra-icanhazip-services-going-offline/

01:08 TR Bot; Extra icanhazip services going offline :: Major Hayden

01:09 TR News; MQTT and Raspberry PI Pico W: Start with Mosquitto (MicroPython) https://peppe8o.com/mqtt-and-raspberry-pi-pico-w-start-with-mosquitto-micropython/ Source: peppe8o | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//peppe8o.com/mqtt-and-raspberry-pi-pico-w-start-with-mosquitto-micropython/

01:09 TR Bot; MQTT and Raspberry PI Pico W: Start with Mosquitto (MicroPython)

01:10 TR News; More greenwashing PR to dilute/harm the brand "Linux" https://linuxfoundation.org/blog/opengeh-green-energy-hub-project/ see http://techrights.org/2021/11/09/linux-foundation-greenwash/

01:10 TR Bot; What is the OpenGEH (Green Energy Hub) Project - Linux Foundation

01:10 TR Bot; Linux Foundation Has Become Even Worse Than Climate Science Deniers | Techrights

01:11 TR News; "Initially built in partnership with Microsoft, Energinet" https://linuxfoundation.org/blog/opengeh-green-energy-hub-project/ Linux Foundation is not misusing the brand "Linux" to spread lies for Microsoft http://techrights.org/2021/11/09/linux-foundation-greenwash/

01:12 TR News; It's like ClearlyDefined in OSI http://techrights.org/2020/09/27/osi-mostly-clearlydefined/

01:12 TR Bot; OSI President: Most or Half of the OSIs Money (Even Individual Donors Money) Goes to a Microsoft-Led Initiative | Techrights

01:13 TR News; LF became a GPL violators' force of occupation against Linux and against the GPL. http://techrights.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation

01:13 TR Bot; Linux Foundation - Techrights

01:15 TR News; If the LF's mission isn't to kill Linux, it's to kill the original owners/ownership of Linux, handing over control of the project to its enemies.

01:15 TR News; GNU/Linux users, LINUX FOUNDATION IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! http://techrights.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#July_2022

01:15 TR Bot; Linux Foundation - Techrights

01:21 TR News; Re Error Handling gemini://gemini.hitchhiker-linux.org/gemlog/re_error_handling.gmi

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2 AM, July 29

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02:23 MinceR; 29 002912 < psydruid> the Russian Winnie the Pooh is a cynical bastard, which makes him much more relatable

02:23 MinceR; and apparently exhales lighter-than-air gas

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02:36 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social and #techpol IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-280722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-280722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-280722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-280722.txt

02:36 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell-social and #techpol @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, July 28, 2022

02:37 TR News; Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-280722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-280722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techrights-280722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-280722.txt

02:37 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, July 28, 2022

02:38 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-280722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-280722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-280722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-280722.txt

02:38 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, July 28, 2022

02:39 TR News; Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-280722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-280722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techbytes-280722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-280722.txt

02:39 TR Bot; IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, July 28, 2022

02:40 TR News; Yesterday's bulletin is now ready! : http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-07-28.txt | gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-07-28.txt (tentative address, to work an hour from now)

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3 AM, July 29

03:02 DaemonFC; I think I figured out who on Libera Chat was having me banned.

03:02 DaemonFC; They're in the #politics room so either they're a narc or they're an IRC op, so I suppose I should scout out the rooms and see if they're in that one, and stay out of the ones they're in. Seems to just be a few.

03:02 DaemonFC; Then I can sneak around without that one noticing me.

03:05 IPFS; Gemini requests since start of month: 359447 total Total number of pages in capsule: 41904 Active: active (running) since Fri 2022-05-27 10:17:06 BST; 2 months 1 days ago

03:06 IPFS; IPFS local node stats (bandwidth since last reset) calculated. TotalIn: 10 MB TotalOut: 1.7 MB

03:07 IPFS; New daily bulletin is now being generated and assembled.

03:09 IPFS; QmXggz4ZzdoNrnyGD87xZXV7EnECHikMc7N5PUE6qSiZ7Y

03:09 IPFS; New daily bulletin has just been added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with the CID above.

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4 AM, July 29

04:06 psydruid; There should be another schism in Liberia, so the number of users gets halved again

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04:07 DaemonFC; schestowitz https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/07/29/fedora-removes-creative-commons-cc0-licensed-software-leaves-fraunhofer-aac-bonus-use-opus-instead-of-aac/

04:07 TR Bot; Fedora removes Creative Commons CC0-licensed software; leaves Fraunhofer AAC. Bonus: Use Opus instead of AAC. BaronHK's Rants

04:09 DaemonFC; Still tweaking it.

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04:11 MinceR; is there a better public domain equivalent license?

04:12 DaemonFC; "(MP3 patents are expired as of 2017, and its very widely used even now, but Fraunhofer pressured the media to lie and suggest you couldnt use it anymore due to being in the public domain. The media in the US is very corrupt and usually spins losses for corporations as a negative thing, even when they benefit the public. Such as with generic prescription drugs.)"

04:16 britney; most of my music is in ALAC format, apple lossless, which has an open source decoder with a patent waiver

04:20 MinceR; i have music in all sorts of formats, but ALAC is not one of them :>

04:20 MinceR; plenty of lossless formats though

04:21 britney; i used alac because i have an iphone

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04:22 MinceR; i am blissfully free of hypePhones :>

04:22 britney; my next phone is going to be an android

04:22 britney; or maybe a pinephone

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04:37 britney; https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/

04:37 TR Bot; PinePhone Pro | PINE64

04:42 phanes; too bad there's not any apps for it

04:44 bnchs; >phone that runs GNU/Linux

04:44 bnchs; >apps

04:44 MinceR; pretty sure GNU/Linux "apps" run on it

04:44 phanes; o rly? check your bank account with it

04:45 MinceR; it has several web browsers with which that could be done, if you have the patience

04:45 MinceR; (though the pro probably handles it better than the non-pro)

04:45 phanes; you know some banks will only let you do transfers through the app

04:45 MinceR; also, i didn't know bank accounts were the sole purpose of "apps"

04:45 bnchs; >some banks will only let you do transfers through the apps

04:45 bnchs; then change banks

04:45 phanes; sounds like excuses

04:45 MinceR; maybe find a bank that doesn't suck so hard

04:45 bnchs; fuck banks that do that kind of bullshit

04:46 phanes; >"we launched an app platform that substitutes web browsers for daily use applications common to all of its known competitors"

04:47 bnchs; not everyone uses phones

04:47 phanes; >not everyone uses phones

04:47 bnchs; and?

04:48 phanes; i mean, if you dont see the fail there, explaining it isn't going to help you

04:49 phanes; in any case i hope it does well, it'll need to build bridges with product teams to make it viable

04:49 MinceR; 29 054629 < phanes> >"we launched an app platform that substitutes web browsers for daily use applications common to all of its known competitors"

04:49 MinceR; where is this from?

04:51 britney; i don't have a bullshit bank, they support any browser

04:51 MinceR; i have a bullshit bank and they still support several browsers

04:52 phanes; look im just saying, if you don't use your bank's app, you're probably not doing much with your bank

04:52 phanes; its one example of all of the apps that a person uses heavily through any given day

04:53 phanes; its a good platform idea with a poorly thought out implementation

04:53 britney; the problem with android is that a lot of phones simply won't work with LineageOS

04:53 britney; you gotta do research before buying

04:54 phanes; yeah

04:54 phanes; lineage supports up to samsung M20

04:54 britney; i dont want some bullshit firmware with apps i cant remove

04:54 phanes; sounds like i gotta wait a few years to try it out

04:54 MinceR; i stopped using my bank's app when they decided they force a replacement and then charge a monthly fee for the new app, just as i was considering switching banks anyway

04:55 britney; oddly enough the google pixel phones are firmware friendly

04:55 MinceR; oh, and also, the signup process for the new app was also a lot of pain

04:55 phanes; im pretty happy with my s22 but admittedly i severely dislike android

04:55 MinceR; too bad google pixel phones are not memory card friendly

04:56 MinceR; and not headset friendly either

04:56 phanes; they try-harded the marketing for mine though its like this big wall of text for the name when you boot it up, its like SAMSUNG GALAXY ULTRA PLUS 22 or something like that

04:56 MinceR; samsung branding as usual

04:56 phanes; like if you hold it wrong it might blast off into space

04:56 britney; the only thing i dislike about ios is that i cant put music on it with linux :/

04:57 britney; so i dont plan to get another iphone because of that

04:57 phanes; i dont touch anything apple

04:57 MinceR; i'm not going to list the things i dislike about hypeOS

04:57 MinceR; i'll take that time and spend it on sleep instead

04:57 britney; lol

04:58 phanes; what i also dislike about android is they found a way to pretend its linux while somehow making you unable to use anything but the vendor-provided image

04:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 30.66 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 305.41

04:59 phanes; thousand dollar phone and i can't control what software i run on it

04:59 britney; the vendor provided images are often worse than ios

5 AM, July 29

05:02 *liberty_box (~liberty@k66x6u69vmfv8.irc) has joined #techrights

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05:44 phanes; anybody know if http/3 is being adopted at all outside of marketing teams for google?

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6 AM, July 29

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06:07 AdmFubar; https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/28/lot-the-big-tech-anti-patent-troll-group-launches-adapt-to-tackle-inclusion-in-the-world-of-ip/

06:07 TR Bot; the anti-patent-troll group, launches Adapt to tackle inclusion in the world of IP TechCrunch

06:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

06:38 *phobos has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)

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06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; lol

06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; inclusion

06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; in a RACKET

06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; thery are not anti-troll group

06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; they include trolls like Microsoft

06:42 psydruid; this is hilarious

06:42 schestowitz[TR2]; AOL now issues paid-for flugg for bad people

06:43 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/2020/03/27/the-lot-network-paper-club/

06:43 TR Bot; LOT Network is a One-Man (Millionaires) Operation and Why This Should Alarm You | Techrights

06:43 psydruid; activelow is antagonizing lots of linux sunxi developers with the rhetoric he displayed here before and they aren't taking it in kind

06:46 schestowitz[TR2]; hhas SJVN issued his puff piece about it yet

06:46 schestowitz[TR2]; They pay him to do this in ZDNet

06:46 schestowitz[TR2]; psydruid: in libera.chat?

06:47 psydruid; schestowitz[TR2]: I made a mistake last time, it's on OFTC and not on libera.chat

06:47 schestowitz[TR2]; sunxi developers: stfu you nazi

06:47 psydruid; but yes

06:47 schestowitz[TR2]; activelow: why THANK YOU!

06:48 psydruid; he's the modern German version of Don Quijote

06:48 schestowitz[TR2]; LOT Network

06:48 schestowitz[TR2]; wasting money buying the media

06:48 schestowitz[TR2]; that's what they do

06:48 psydruid; still tilting at windmills all these centuries later

06:50 TR News; #Techrights Bulletin for Thursday, July 28, 2022 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext

06:50 TR Bot; Bulletin Archives

06:50 psydruid; "aggi: yes, facts are facts, your interpretation of them is kind of cringe"

06:50 TR News; #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing

06:50 TR Bot; Techrights Full IPFS Index

06:51 psydruid; "I understand that if you want to self-bootstrap on an embedded board c++ compilers are a problem but that does not make them non-free, that's just delusional"

06:51 TR News; Firefox 104 Enters Beta Testing with Two-Finger Swipe Back/Forward Gesture on Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167785

06:51 TR Bot; Firefox 104 Enters Beta Testing with Two-Finger Swipe Back/Forward Gesture on Linux | Tux Machines

06:54 schestowitz[TR2]; psydruid: bettter there than here tbh

06:54 psydruid; indeed

06:55 psydruid; he finally figured out he didn't have an audience here anymore

06:55 TR News; [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/sneps/D306.jpg

06:56 TR News; Why Not Oberon? gemini://54.203.8.106/why.not.oberon.gmi

06:57 TR News; "Yup, any day now, it'll be "there's an AI for that!" instead of last decade's "there's an App for that!"." gemini://54.203.8.106/theres.an.ai.for.that.gmi

06:57 TR News; Just Writing gemini://josias.dev/gemlog/just-writing.gmi

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06:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 232.36

06:59 TR News; "I deleted Facebook a couple years in, avoided most of the other services, and let my online presence eventually turn into just... a sort of resume. Things got weirder online, and the weirdness and negativity leaked into the real world too." gemini://rawtext.club/~epiii2/log/2022-07-29/

06:59 TR News; "KaiOS devices are a bit scary, as KaiOS has huge Google investment, and they are becoming almost functional smartphones with quite a lot of functionality and apps - distractions and news are what we're trying to get away from." gemini://gemini.sensorstation.co/devices.nuu-f4l.gmi

7 AM, July 29

07:08 TR News; The History of Kali Linux [Penetration Testing] Distribution https://www.linuxshelltips.com/kali-linux-history/ Source: linuxshelltips | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//www.linuxshelltips.com/kali-linux-history/

07:08 TR Bot; The History of Kali Linux [Penetration Testing] Distribution

07:11 TR News; GOOD for the planet: Global smartphone sales take a hit for fourth quarter running https://itwire.com/mobility/global-smartphone-sales-take-a-hit-for-fourth-quarter-running.html Source: itwire | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//itwire.com/mobility/global-smartphone-sales-take-a-hit-for-fourth-quarter-running.html

07:11 TR Bot; - Global smartphone sales take a hit for fourth quarter running

07:11 TR News; Fedora removes Creative Commons CC0-licensed software; leaves Fraunhofer AAC. Bonus: Use Opus instead of AAC. - BaronHKs Rants https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/07/29/fedora-removes-creative-commons-cc0-licensed-software-leaves-fraunhofer-aac-bonus-use-opus-instead-of-aac/ Source: baronhk

07:11 TR Bot; Fedora removes Creative Commons CC0-licensed software; leaves Fraunhofer AAC. Bonus: Use Opus instead of AAC. BaronHK's Rants

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07:20 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167786 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/today%27s_howtos.shtml #news

07:20 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

07:20 TR Bot; today's howtos

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07:27 TR News; [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D657.jpg

07:27 TR News; Internet/Gemini: Some Boring Analysis on TLGS Index (and messing with CERN's ROOT analysis framework) gemini://gemini.clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2022/07-29-some-boring-analysis-on-tlgs-index.gmi

07:28 TR News; Firefox Nightly: These Weeks In Firefox: Issue 121 https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2022/07/28/these-weeks-in-firefox-issue-121/

07:28 TR Bot; These Weeks In Firefox: Issue 121 Firefox Nightly News

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07:45 TR News; A Tale of Three COVID Summers, as Told by UK Hospitals https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/29/worst-summer-covid/

07:45 TR Bot; Blog Archive A Tale of Three COVID Summers, as Told by UK Hospitals

07:46 TR News; In one month Windows went down from 29% share to 28%. In ONE MONTH. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-200901-202207

07:46 TR Bot; Operating System Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

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07:49 TR News; "Here are the slides I presented for a ClickHouse SF Bay Area Meetup in July2022, hosted by Altinity. They are about Akvorado, a network flow collector and visualizer, and notably on how it relies on ClickHouse, a column-oriented database." https://vincent.bernat.ch/en/blog/2022-clickhouse-meetup-akvorado

07:49 TR Bot; ClickHouse SF Bay Area Meetup: Akvorado

07:56 TR News; Garuda Linux Talon: Arch, but different, and better Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167787

07:56 TR Bot; Garuda Linux 'Talon': Arch, but different, and better | Tux Machines

07:56 TR News; 7 Docks to Customize Your Linux Desktop in 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167788

07:56 TR Bot; 7 Docks to Customize Your Linux Desktop in 2022 | Tux Machines

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8 AM, July 29

08:01 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167789

08:01 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines

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08:03 matey; parum-pom-pom-pom-pom

08:03 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XZVpR3Pk-r8

08:03 TR Bot; Soft Cell - Tainted Love (Official Music Video) - Invidious

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08:10 matey; xrevan86 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=ApfKv8Kx4oI as much as i enjoyed the subtitles, its better without them (this is longer and the video capture/conversion is way better)

08:10 TR Bot; : | Winnie the Pooh russian animation 99 jyne - Invidious

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08:11 matey; besides, once you realise theyre sticking to the story you more or less know what theyre saying if youve seen it a few times

08:11 matey; the best part of the subtitles was seeing the lyrics to the song :)

08:11 matey; just seeing eeyore speak in russian is trippy

08:12 matey; though tbh eeyore was always russian-- hes the most russian character in the whole thing

08:12 matey; "do you see the gopher, pooh?"

08:12 matey; "no, im sorry eeyore"

08:12 matey; "doesnt matter."

08:13 matey; actually gophers a character (and his name) so it could be

08:13 matey; "pooh, have you seen gopher?"

08:13 matey; "no, eeyore, not today"

08:13 matey; "neither have i. but hes there."

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08:19 matey; /me wonders why owl is dressed as a babushka, but its fine

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08:26 TR News; Canonical Says It "Want[s] to be the Best Open-Source Company in the World", Then Promotes Microsoft's Proprietary Surveillance While Microsoft Attacks Linux https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/28/Canonical_Says_It_%22Wants_to_be_the_Best_Open-Source_Company_in_the_World%22,_Then_Promotes_Microsoft%27s_Proprietary_Surveillance_While_Microsoft_Attacks_Linux.shtml #news

08:26 TR Bot; Canonical Says It "Want[s] to be the Best Open-Source Company in the World", Then Promotes Microsoft's Proprietary Surveillance While Microsoft Attacks Linux

08:28 DaemonFC; I might make some liver and onions on Saturday.

08:28 DaemonFC; Ten bucks for everything I need is a pretty cheap meal.

08:32 DaemonFC; <matey> /me wonders why owl is dressed as a babushka, but its fine

08:32 DaemonFC; Obvious homosexual propaganda.

08:32 DaemonFC; XRevan86?

08:35 TR News; Windows Has Had a Very Tough Year (Thats Why Microsoft Starts to Block GNU/Linux With Secure Boot) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/tough-windows-year/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/tough-windows-year/

08:35 TR Bot; Windows Has Had a Very Tough Year (Thats Why Microsoft Starts to Block GNU/Linux With Secure Boot) | Techrights

08:36 TR News; The worst summer with COVID-19 so far. https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/29/worst-summer-covid/

08:36 TR Bot; Blog Archive A Tale of Three COVID Summers, as Told by UK Hospitals

08:40 XRevan86; DaemonFC, matey: The owl is female in this version.

08:41 XRevan86; matey: Let me guess, activelow is harassing them over C features used.

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08:52 TR News; IRC Proceedings: Thursday, July 28, 2022 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/irc-log-280722/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/irc-log-280722/

08:52 TR Bot; IRC Proceedings: Thursday, July 28, 2022 | Techrights

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08:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

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9 AM, July 29

09:01 *horseface (~horseface@fasbtmdvdwu9a.irc) has joined #techrights

09:01 TR News; Microsoft Bribing Everyone: Canonical, Linux Foundation, OSI... (Those That Should Push Back Against Microsoft Crimes) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/bribing-the-rivals/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/bribing-the-rivals/

09:01 TR Bot; Microsoft Bribing Everyone: Canonical, Linux Foundation, OSI (Those That Should Push Back Against Microsoft Crimes) | Techrights

09:06 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

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09:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

09:37 matey; /me is mesmerised by the simplicity (it is inefficient at least) of an algorithm he wrote

09:37 matey; im not great at this stuff, never claimed to be

09:38 matey; but what it does is let you pipe text in, and it sorts the text by linecount per "group"

09:38 matey; a group being 1 or more consecutive lines without any blank lines between

09:40 matey; so if you concatenate 3 walls of text that are 170, 50 and 128 lines each

09:40 matey; it will give you those back with the 50-line one first, then the 128-line one, etc

09:41 matey; theres only one buffer (a list) and no dictionaries and no sort command / function

09:41 matey; i was SUPER lazy that day, or i might have traded simplicity for efficiency or something

09:42 matey; but i was trying to figure out how the program worked, as i wrote it some time ago, and i opened it up to look at the code and i was like

09:42 matey; /me turns it upside down, looks behind the screen

09:42 matey; THATS IT?

09:42 matey; wheres the rest of it

09:42 matey; its not really bragging if you know its not great

09:43 matey; but it still impresses me

09:44 matey; if i had made it more efficient, btw, it might use a lot more ram

09:44 matey; and i wanted it to work on large files

09:44 matey; but i could have designed it better

09:45 matey; presently its working on 15mb of text

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09:49 TR News; [Meme] Truly a Landmark Occasion | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/epo-landmark-occasion/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/epo-landmark-occasion/

09:49 TR Bot; [Meme] Truly a Landmark Occasion | Techrights

09:51 matey; with the voices, animation and facial expressions, vinnie pooh really makes me think of south park

09:52 matey; when vinnie pooh walks and sings, hes basically marching, which i think is priceless

09:53 matey; the original pooh doesnt march, its something he basically never does

09:53 matey; pooh isnt militant-- of course, it was never forbidden :)

09:54 schestowitz[TR2]; vinnie winnie?

09:54 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/bribing-the-rivals/

09:54 schestowitz[TR2]; OSI

09:54 TR Bot; Microsoft Bribing Everyone: Canonical, Linux Foundation, OSI (Those That Should Push Back Against Microsoft Crimes) | Techrights

09:55 schestowitz[TR2]; OSILF

09:55 schestowitz[TR2]; LFISO

09:55 matey; its still a very childlike marching

09:55 schestowitz[TR2]; LSOF

09:55 schestowitz[TR2]; ls open files

09:55 matey; OSILF <- osi id like to fuck?

09:55 schestowitz[TR2]; Linux and Source Open Foundation

09:55 matey; open source id like to fuck

09:55 matey; no, but it can get fucked anyway

09:56 schestowitz[TR2]; MILF = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front

09:56 TR Bot; Moro Islamic Liberation Front - Wikipedia

09:56 matey; ROFL

09:56 matey; ive seen that

09:56 schestowitz[TR2]; ok

09:56 schestowitz[TR2]; it's more famous

09:56 matey; its still funny

09:56 schestowitz[TR2]; but not in USlansd

09:56 matey; i mean anyone who uses wikipedia has fair odds of seeing it sooner or later

09:57 schestowitz[TR2]; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_conflict

09:57 TR Bot; Moro conflict - Wikipedia

09:57 matey; disambiguation pages are priceless sometimes

09:57 schestowitz[TR2]; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Region_in_Muslim_Mindanao

09:57 TR Bot; Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao - Wikipedia

09:57 matey; you dont have to know anything about the politics to stumble onto that article

09:57 matey; this is the genius of wikipedia

09:57 matey; its certainly not in their deletion mob, erm, "process"

09:57 matey; candidates for speedy lynching

09:58 matey; its an imperfect process to be sure

09:59 matey; but it definitely overlaps with little wannabe fascist toddler spite brigades

09:59 matey; hopefully they lead lives that are just as miserable as phanes would guess they do

10 AM, July 29

10:00 matey; "tiny little hitlers" <- donald glovers take on what kids are really like

10:01 matey; he means small children

10:01 matey; "kids are awful, awful people" :)

10:02 matey; hes not excluding himself when he was a kid. hes saying they all are

10:02 matey; kids are people that havent figured out how to be human yet

10:02 matey; thats the joke anyway

10:03 matey; if he was entirely serious it wouldnt be comedy, or something

10:04 matey; you can extend this to wikipedia in a similar fashion, but i (technically) wont

10:08 matey; the number of times ive gone to wikipedia to look something up only to find it was gone makes it somewhat of a farce

10:08 matey; its extremely useful anyway obviously

10:08 matey; but the overall sentiment is one of disgust

10:09 matey; i like wikipedia but i hate it that much more

10:09 matey; people must think i hate everything, but that isnt remotely true

10:09 matey; the things i hate the most are things that used to be great, before someone fucked them up

10:09 matey; a lot of the stuff on wp is great-- before someone fucks it up

10:09 matey; debian was (imo) great before someone fucked it up

10:10 matey; the fsf was definitely great before someone fucked it up

10:10 matey; some things are still great

10:10 matey; fewer, to be sure :/ the fuckers have been awfully busy

10:10 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights

10:10 matey; but this isnt what its like to hate everything. i cant imagine.

10:11 matey; buglists do not have to balance the good and the bad

10:11 matey; severity: CRITICAL (but its still a nice program, really)

10:12 matey; of course its a nice program. if it wasnt, you wouldnt bother fixing it would you

10:12 matey; severity: CRITICAL (but who cares, its a piece of shit and always will be)

10:13 matey; why even open a ticket then

10:15 matey; the sole word i understand in all of vinnie pooh is "spasiba"

10:15 matey; unless you count the names

10:16 matey; ill feel cheated if he doesnt say "blin" at least once

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10:26 matey; xrevan, psydroid (may destroy your childhood) <- fair warning https://yewtu.be/watch?v=wkWQhqWbTpc

10:26 TR Bot; Russian Winnie Pooh - Invidious

10:26 matey; xrevan "ive seen it"

10:27 matey; wrong link though

10:28 matey; this one: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=7Wa1tafVp5I

10:28 TR Bot; Putin sings russian winnie the pooh - Invidious

10:40 TR News; Microsoft is just blatantly trying to obstruct BSD and Linux from even booting on new desktops/laptops, having simply resorted to illegal tactics while bribing those who would otherwise deposit a complaint with the authorities http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/tough-windows-year/

10:40 TR Bot; Windows Has Had a Very Tough Year (Thats Why Microsoft Starts to Block GNU/Linux With Secure Boot) | Techrights

10:43 TR News; Dont expect the Linux Foundation or OSI to speak out against Microsofts latest crimes http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/bribing-the-rivals/

10:43 TR Bot; Microsoft Bribing Everyone: Canonical, Linux Foundation, OSI (Those That Should Push Back Against Microsoft Crimes) | Techrights

10:43 TR News; With about 1 patent application in 100,000, Montenegro is truly a cause for celebration for EPO presidents like Benot Battistelli and Antnio Campinos, who simply buy votes http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/epo-landmark-occasion/

10:43 TR Bot; [Meme] Truly a Landmark Occasion | Techrights

10:44 TR News; "The developers of LibreOffice have released updates for the open source Office suite to patch three security issues." https://www.ghacks.net/2022/07/27/libreoffice-security-update-fixes-macro-execution-bypass-and-potential-password-leaking/

10:44 TR Bot; LibreOffice security update fixes macro execution bypass and potential password leaking - gHacks Tech News

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10:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

10:59 psydruid; This isn't directly related to tech, but it is kind of what has been done to the FSF, GNU and free software in general

10:59 psydruid; https://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/tour-de-france/2022/erik-ten-hag-how-manchester-united-boss-inspired-masterplan-to-topple-tadej-pogacar-at-tour-de-franc_sto9064930/story.shtml

10:59 TR Bot; NO TITLE

11 AM, July 29

11:00 psydruid; And it can be used against Microsoft, IBM, LF, OSI etc.

11:01 psydruid; Just "attack, attack, attack" and tear them apart

11:03 matey; attacking microsoft is good of course

11:03 matey; when youre facing oligarchs and up against the mass media

11:04 matey; "attack attack attack" is useful but looks a little different

11:04 matey; you can attack attack attack bill gates and the epstein connection for example

11:04 matey; but the reason it worked against stallman was twofold

11:05 matey; 1. the msm has zero principles-- only fake principles it can throw out at will

11:05 matey; 2. they had enough traitors on the inside

11:05 matey; we dont have the msm, we dont have 3000 traitors on the other side

11:05 matey; so by no means am i saying dont try

11:05 matey; only when youre calculating the odds of success, its not the same equation

11:06 matey; now heres what was accomplished, historically, despite these odds

11:06 matey; the free software movement WAS created

11:06 matey; it DID pose a serious threat to microsoft

11:06 matey; it could again

11:07 matey; what STOPPED it was counterrevolution

11:07 matey; open source was a wildly effective counterrevolution

11:07 matey; so if we did all that again

11:07 matey; INCLUDING attack attack attack

11:07 matey; and we told open source counterrevolutionaries to fuck themselves with a tree

11:08 matey; we could do it again

11:08 matey; it worked the first time, the major mistake was listening to these corporate-sucking cunts

11:08 matey; that took free software completely off course

11:08 matey; do it again, learn from history

11:09 matey; and attack attack attack

11:09 matey; THAT can work

11:09 matey; but even then, its not the same as what they did to us. because we dont have the msm (they dont care. they never do) and we dont have 3000 traitors to giafam on our side

11:09 matey; maybe someday we can inspire people to defect

11:10 matey; and theres no time like today to start trying-- provided people understand

11:10 matey; its going to take time to rebuild

11:10 matey; and open source was never an ally

11:10 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights

11:10 matey; open source helped free software about as much as switzerland helped the british in wwii

11:11 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights

11:12 matey; while attack attack attack may not have the same effect when it moves in the opposite direction

11:12 matey; when seen as victorious-- as meaningful, powerful

11:12 matey; it can inspire other people to attack and to join

11:12 matey; the fsf used to inspire people that way

11:12 matey; now everything it does is empty, meaningless, easy to dismiss

11:12 matey; "we fight for" no you dont

11:13 matey; you dont at all

11:13 matey; you do nothing

11:13 matey; you

11:13 matey; DID, once

11:13 matey; for a long time, more than osi, more than mozilla

11:13 matey; more than esr

11:13 matey; esr didnt fight. he schemed. he may have schemed with good intentions

11:14 matey; he thought he was SO fucking smart

11:14 matey; today we see how smart he really was

11:14 matey; :P

11:14 matey; other people took chances, esr thought he could trick our opponent into losing

11:14 matey; it was pretty fucking naive

11:15 matey; listening to that bullshit and taking it seriously was naive on the part of free software

11:15 matey; open source was a delusional approach

11:15 *horseface has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

11:15 matey; based on completely misunderstanding the opponent

11:15 matey; and overestimating esrs intelligence

11:16 matey; his entire strategy was nonsense, historically easy to debunk

11:16 matey; but we didnt realise that

11:16 matey; i think some people always knew what a crock it was

11:16 matey; we should have listened to them more closely

11:17 matey; stallman, for his part, did far too much to underestimate microsoft

11:17 matey; and open source

11:17 matey; if we intend to make those mistakes again

11:17 matey; theres not much point in trying

11:17 matey; i think theres a point, but only if we learn from that lesson

11:17 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights

11:17 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights

11:18 matey; imagine competing with microsoft for years-- as a software company

11:18 matey; only to get bought by them

11:18 matey; "this is great! weve finally become so FORMIDABLE that they want to own what we do!"

11:18 matey; "yeah but once they own us theyll just destroy whats theirs"

11:19 matey; "why would they do that to an asset so good they cant compete?"

11:19 matey; gee, how about because-- its exactly what theyve always done

11:19 matey; and stupid fucking free/open

11:19 matey; decided they were the exception to this rule

11:19 matey; dum dum dum dum dum

11:20 matey; as dum as thinking ibm wouldnt destroy red hat

11:20 matey; b

11:20 matey; theyve certainly gutted it nicely

11:20 psydruid; maybe gutting red hat was even the plan

11:21 matey; of course it was the plan

11:21 matey; ibm Is Basically Microsoft

11:21 matey; this is what they do

11:21 matey; its like elections with a good candidate

11:22 matey; a good candidate has no chance

11:22 psydruid; red hat shopping itself around to companies including microsoft should have been a clear enough message

11:22 matey; their own party destroys them

11:22 matey; then the candidate ENDORSES the "real" chance of winning

11:22 matey; ibm will lock in red hat customers

11:22 matey; then move them gradually to whatever they want

11:22 matey; its not a product-- its a cattle chute.

11:22 *horseface (~horseface@zisfjvu4z99eq.irc) has joined #techrights

11:23 matey; they own the chute, they can move people where they want it to go

11:23 matey; microsoft does this with windows

11:23 psydruid; so now all of the commercial distributions with developers working on the core stack are in the Microsoft/IBM camp

11:23 matey; the sole purpose of windows-- isnt software

11:23 matey; its to make customers do things microsoft wants

11:23 matey; so now all of the commercial distributions with developers working on the core stack are in the Microsoft/IBM camp <- thanks to systemd

11:24 matey; theyre working for ibm, for free

11:24 matey; most are working for free

11:24 matey; to find out what ibm is really paying their "employees"

11:24 matey; take the people they pay a salary to

11:24 matey; then divide that by the number of people working on it

11:25 matey; then multiply THAT by the number of people it takes for volunteers to add up to a 40 hour work week

11:25 matey; then you have what people are really making per hour

11:25 matey; commercial free software is a sweatship

11:25 matey; sweatshop

11:25 matey; if its for a cause that benefits the world-- its real volunteer work

11:25 matey; if its for a cause that COSTS the world and benefits a multinational

11:25 matey; thats exploitation, plain and simple

11:26 matey; theyre working for a rounding error salary beneath minimum wage

11:26 *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Leaving)

11:26 matey; red hat is a sweatshop

11:26 matey; debian is a sweatshop too

11:26 matey; this isnt free software, its slave software

11:26 matey; stallman is dead

11:27 matey; red hat is eating his corpse

11:27 matey; hes being slowly digested

11:28 *techrights_guest|23 (~3ed8d634@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #techrights

11:28 matey; people would do well to remember what things were like, when we were winning

11:28 matey; it wasnt just the results that were different

11:28 matey; we still did things the right way (mostly) back then

11:28 matey; im not saying the big shift towards corporate dick sucking was the only mistake worth learning from

11:28 psydruid; a whole approach doesn't just take software into account but also hardware, it's just that people don't realize their own power when it comes to buying products and supporting these corporations

11:28 psydruid; https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-Gen9-To-Legacy-Model

11:28 TR Bot; Begins Shifting 6th To 10th Gen Intel Processor Graphics To Legacy Support - Phoronix

11:29 *techrights_guest|23 has quit (Quit: Connection closed)

11:29 matey; a whole approach doesn't just take software into account but also hardware <- it didnt have to when the fsf started

11:29 matey; but it does now

11:29 matey; the fsf can say thats not their focus-- thats fine

11:29 matey; but like with free culture

11:29 psydruid; Intel is moving support for graphics that are merely 2 years old to legacy status

11:29 matey; if thats not their focus, they need to stay out of free hardwares way with their bullshit

11:29 matey; i dont mean agree on everything

11:30 matey; i mean dont use their support network to keep free hardware from succeeding

11:30 matey; fsf isnt a monopoly

11:30 matey; but sometimes it behaves in a way that would be antitrust, if a for-profit did it

11:30 psydruid; I expect these corporations to interfere with free hardware when it starts hitting their bottom line

11:30 matey; i mean they abuse their influence to spread bullshit-- not as a rule, but some important and key exceptions

11:30 matey; we cant allow that with free hardware

11:31 matey; free culture is guilty of the same

11:31 matey; cc betrayed the whole world-- twice!

11:31 matey; first regarding their own mission

11:31 matey; then regarding free softwae

11:31 matey; cc should be scrapped

11:31 matey; I expect these corporations to interfere with free hardware when it starts hitting their bottom line <- hell they do already

11:31 matey; they always will

11:32 matey; without an anti-corporate movement

11:32 matey; i dont think this stuff will ever work for more than 20 years

11:32 matey; without having to start over again

11:32 matey; some people, lessig for example

11:32 matey; they realise theres a bigger picture and they go off to fight that

11:32 matey; its noble

11:33 matey; but someone has to stay behind and stay focused on the smaller stuff

11:33 matey; like its not enough to fight corporations-- and ignore what we were doing before

11:33 matey; but its also not enough to do what we were doing before-- and ignore corporate tyranny

11:33 matey; the fsf does the latter, and fails

11:33 matey; humanity has to stand up now

11:33 matey; or it will be mowed down

11:34 matey; theres no more time

11:34 matey; and the new fsf can eat a dick

11:35 matey; despite all this, ive spent years looking for hope somewhere

11:35 matey; it exists

11:35 matey; we have a chance

11:36 matey; its just that we dont have all the time in the world

11:36 matey; what people need to do is think of something that might help-- in some way

11:36 matey; and do it

11:36 matey; and encourage each other to do the same

11:37 matey; but also, warn each other not to fall for the same bullshit again

11:37 matey; thats where theres a lot of slack

11:37 matey; the old bullshit is pretty relentless

11:37 matey; if you want to win against old bullshit, you have to be pretty relentless too

11:37 matey; esr never was

11:37 matey; relentless compromise isnt what im talking about here

11:38 matey; join us now and shareholder value <- the esr song

11:38 matey; stupid dick

11:38 matey; from the beginning of open source, it looked less stupid

11:39 matey; here we are on the other side, and theyre even dumber

11:39 matey; if they were smart at all, they would see where they fucked up

11:39 matey; but it was never about that. they only care about what they ACTUALLY HAVE now

11:39 matey; and what they have now, is dick.

11:39 matey; and theyre happy.

11:39 matey; so they never wanted very much. just dick.

11:39 matey; thats stupid

11:40 matey; "youll have absolutely dick, and youll be happy"

11:40 matey; open source dovetails so nicely with that shit

11:41 matey; its like the historical revisionism of southern slavery

11:41 matey; our slaves were happy slaves! we gave them a HOME, we gave them FOOD

11:41 matey; we were doing something GOOD!

11:41 matey; fuck off

11:41 matey; red hat and debian are sweatshops

11:41 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

11:42 matey; and they do the same to users

11:44 *KiKi has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

11:45 psydruid; x86 hardware sales are down, but I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing

11:45 matey; i mean, graphs like that go /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

11:45 matey; but not in this direction ----------->

11:45 matey; they do that in a general downward trend

11:45 psydruid; also IBM POWER and Z don't seem to be used that much anymore

11:45 matey; Z :)

11:46 matey; because naming their technology "swastika" would be too awkward

11:46 psydruid; so if the hardware isn't bought, you also cut off their software supply

11:46 matey; yeah well cutting off the spread of ibm software is like cutting off the spread of hiv

11:46 matey; it can only be a good thing

11:47 matey; too bad that includes gcc (needs forked)

11:47 matey; gcc may be nearly impossible to fork, but llvm is worse in that regard

11:47 matey; it includes gdb as well

11:47 matey; ibm has bigger assets than red hat

11:47 matey; yes i consider gcc more valuable than red hat

11:48 matey; but theyre joined at the fucking hip

11:48 matey; suppose ibm goes under, what happens to gcc

11:48 matey; there are mirrors

11:48 matey; who works on them?

11:48 matey; theres a culture behind all this

11:49 matey; that culture is whats being dismantled

11:49 matey; so roy can say ibm will die, and it should, the sooner the better

11:49 matey; but ask him whats going to happen to gcc, he hasnt got a clue

11:50 matey; only one who does is eben moglen

11:50 matey; and he threatened someones job! so i guess its not important

11:50 matey; WE HAVE RULES

11:50 psydruid; we'll have systemd-compilerd at least

11:50 matey; heh

11:50 psydruid; so no problem

11:51 matey; a little cynicism is informative

11:51 matey; a lot of cynicism is mincer

11:51 schestowitz[TR2]; lol

11:52 schestowitz[TR2]; bringing light to issues

11:52 matey; yeah i mean

11:52 matey; you need someone who can poke holes in bullshit

11:52 matey; hes good at that

11:52 schestowitz[TR2]; gcc is not ibm

11:52 psydruid; this is what I imagine Russian Winnie the Pooh to be like

11:52 matey; you also need people who are crazy enough to go forward with an imperfect plan

11:52 matey; when its the best we can muster

11:52 schestowitz[TR2]; gcc is some hardware companies, suse, ibm

11:52 schestowitz[TR2]; it's more than ibm

11:53 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> gcc is not ibm <- i dont have a problem i can stop drinking anytime i want

11:53 matey; good luck with that

11:53 matey; gcc is 95% ibm

11:53 psydruid; be as cynical as mincer and go around hitting people with a wooden bat singing "pom pom pom pom pom"

11:53 matey; so you take your 5% and have fun

11:53 schestowitz[TR2]; ibm pushes powerx to gcc

11:53 schestowitz[TR2]; gcc does many other archs

11:53 schestowitz[TR2]; that compete with ibm

11:54 matey; i love that you think that changes the fact that ibm controls gcc

11:54 schestowitz[TR2]; no way 95%

11:54 matey; in fact it already did

11:54 matey; it simply expands that

11:54 matey; only moglen is worried

11:54 schestowitz[TR2]; show that 95% of commits are |ibm empoloyees 100% of the time"

11:54 matey; the rest are naive

11:54 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> show that 95% of commits are |ibm empoloyees 100% of the time" ITS THEIR TURF

11:54 matey; they control the repo. they control the other devs.

11:54 psydruid; red hat is ibm

11:54 psydruid; sourceware is ibm

11:55 matey; they also are substantial contributors

11:55 matey; you really do suck at this kind of math.

11:55 matey; i suck at every kind of math, but this one is easy

11:55 matey; <psydruid> sourceware is ibm <- yep

11:55 matey; and it does go beyond sourceware

11:55 matey; cancelling stallman was part of controlling gcc

11:56 matey; anyone who misses that is just sucking their thumb

11:56 matey; im not saying that was the primary objective

11:56 matey; im saying it was a factor

11:56 matey; again, moglen is the only one sounding the alarm on this

11:56 matey; fsf might be deaf

11:56 matey; or just stupid

11:57 matey; or just worthless

11:57 matey; they cant even defend themselves, but they fight for users?

11:57 matey; and what do they want from us? money?

11:57 matey; please

11:58 matey; fight and get paid to keep doing it

11:58 psydruid; our hearts and minds

11:58 matey; throw the fight and dont expect to be paid to keep doing it

11:58 psydruid; for the cause of free deadware

11:58 schestowitz[TR2]; https://lwn.net/Articles/857791/

11:58 matey; hearts and minds <- the battle cry of the cynical candidate

11:58 TR Bot; drops its copyright-assignment requirement [LWN.net]

11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/151827

11:59 TR Bot; FSF Copyright Assignment and GCC, GCC 9.4 Released | Tux Machines

11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; many links tghere

11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; dozens

11:59 matey; omg links

11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/2021/06/02/gcc-copyright-assignment/

11:59 TR Bot; It Remains Largely Unclear Whose Idea It Was to Change GCC Copyright Assignment Practices (or How/Why It Started) | Techrights

11:59 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> https://lwn.net/Articles/857791/ <- zero relevance

11:59 matey; maybe less

11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; brb

11:59 matey; youre looking for a way to deny this trend

noon, July 29

12:00 matey; dont bother, its foolish

12:00 matey; if you dont do this in a thumb-in-your-arse kind of way, all the pieces fit nicely

12:00 matey; if you want to deny shit, all you do is multiply the unanswered questions severalfold

12:00 matey; which is great if you want to blog about all of those

12:01 matey; LOOK HOW BUSY WE ARE

12:01 matey; yeah, paying yourself to dig holes

12:01 matey; but the real question is, but the REAL question is, but the real QUESTION is...

12:01 matey; nope, nope, nope

12:02 matey; the real question is why youre so well-adapted to running away from answers

12:02 schestowitz[TR2]; you made an assertion

12:02 schestowitz[TR2]; gcc is ibm

12:02 matey; ive made plenty of assertions

12:02 schestowitz[TR2]; prove they are vast majority of gcc commits

12:02 matey; i wish i would be right less often...

12:02 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> prove they are vast majority of gcc commits <- youre being silly

12:02 schestowitz[TR2]; no

12:02 matey; youre asking me to prove shit that doesnt even matter

12:03 matey; its not about commits-- but i explained that

12:03 schestowitz[TR2]; i need the facs on this

12:03 matey; prove your head isnt a cube.

12:03 matey; i need the facs on this <- no you dont

12:03 matey; i give you the facts, you ask me to prove things they DONT DEPEND ON

12:03 matey; its not about the number of commits. its YOUR assertion that metric is the meaningful one

12:03 matey; not mine.

12:04 matey; youre moving the goalposts or changing the subject

12:04 matey; go right ahead. youre only running from the truth

12:04 matey; some of us care about this stuff

12:05 matey; you can pursue the truth yourself, you can give me real reason im wrong instead of wasting both our time

12:05 matey; you can actually do whatever its pleases you to do

12:05 matey; but if you want to be right, id pay better attention.

12:05 matey; choice is always yours

12:05 matey; hell, you sure dont work for me

12:05 matey; you spend your time on alex gravely

12:06 matey; it wont DO anything, but its mildly interesting

12:06 matey; to me, gcc being at stake is more interesting

12:06 matey; but "we" dont cover that because "we" dont know shit about it

12:06 matey; and i dont think its better to make things up

12:07 matey; but are you even looking? no, youre Looking Away

12:07 matey; again, your choice

12:07 matey; mine to critique too

12:07 matey; i think its foolish to dismiss this

12:07 matey; but you get to if you want to

12:08 matey; and hey, everyone but moglen seems to think its alright

12:08 matey; ibm is probably doing what theyre doing (that moglen addressed) for nothing

12:08 matey; its not part of a plan or a strategy

12:08 matey; with gcc ibm is just throwing shit at the wall

12:08 matey; im sure...

12:10 matey; i still think gcc is more forkable than llvm

12:10 matey; what i dont know is-- how forkable is gcc?

12:10 matey; time will tell

12:10 matey; maybe we will all be using rust by then :/

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; suse is still a big parrt of gcc

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; inc. official announcemnre

12:11 matey; oh, suse

12:11 matey; well, now i feel better

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; syou could make the case that whgile suse competes with red hat

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; it is still very close to ibm

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; re power deployuments and hpc

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; and that novell's last ceo was from ivbm

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; as were many other novell execs

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; but gcc is not ibm

12:11 schestowitz[TR2]; ibm is a big part

12:12 schestowitz[TR2]; ut there are many stakeholkders other than ibm

12:12 matey; ibm is the part that does the steering and the hosting

12:12 matey; they also do development

12:12 matey; the rest is gravy

12:12 matey; ibm is the one moving to cut free software out of gcc

12:12 matey; and turn it into something more mozilla-like

12:12 matey; if it takes them 15 years, theyll do it anyway

12:12 matey; why shouldnt they, when no one will even try to stop them

12:12 schestowitz[TR2]; what about google, arm, intelll?

12:13 matey; what about baphometos?

12:13 matey; as far as i know, google and arm and intel are not the major factors in this problem

12:13 matey; i dont even understand the question

12:14 matey; seems like a change of subject

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; they also play a role

12:14 matey; but not THE role

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; they also do not agree with rms

12:14 matey; thats ibm. again.

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; assuming rms as a bropther, aarson (AAS)

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; who worked at IBM

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; *aaron

12:14 schestowitz[TR2]; sorry, standing while typing

12:15 matey; they also do not agree with rms <- are you implying that people who disagree with rms therefore have control of gcc?

12:15 matey; because thats certainly not my argument

12:15 schestowitz[TR2]; *ASS, not AAS

12:15 matey; im implying that ibm has more control over gcc than any other party

12:15 matey; also, ibm is the one moving to have more control

12:15 schestowitz[TR2]; that\'s true

12:15 matey; do you see anyone else doing that? i do not.

12:15 schestowitz[TR2]; but not all parties combined

12:16 matey; i honestly dont beleve it matters to them

12:16 matey; ibm and intel have a "special relationship"

12:16 matey; when blair stands up to the iraq bullshit, ill expect intel to give two shits about this

12:16 schestowitz[TR2]; a lot of giafam do

12:16 schestowitz[TR2]; i=ibm, intel

12:16 matey; depends on what you mean by "this"

12:16 matey; i happen to mean "gcc"

12:17 matey; unless you think intel is going to stand up to ibm on this

12:17 matey; or care if ibm controls gcc

12:17 matey; intel doesnt matter here

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; i'll come bakc to this

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; later

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; I need to stand a bit

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; and read my draft

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; for my health

12:17 schestowitz[TR2]; too many typos for irc

12:18 matey; its not going to get solved today anyway

12:18 matey; but the purpose of sounding the alarm is to alert the people who can fight this

12:18 schestowitz[TR2]; atym uefi a priority

12:18 schestowitz[TR2]; plan is to bring it up every day

12:18 matey; well theres too much going on to focus on just one thing, which you dont anyway

12:18 matey; nor do i

12:19 matey; but i dont make a habit of using one vital issue to discount or distract from another vital issue

12:19 matey; unless you think alex gravely is that important

12:19 matey; but i dont

12:20 matey; github is/will do/ing fine without him

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; alex gravel

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; is a link

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; like many others

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; not rick allen jones

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; graveley is close buddies with de icaza and github ceo

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; why do you think they both took a hike?

12:22 matey; its pretty obvious why

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; we''re looking into case's discovery

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; seems github has an inner crisis

12:22 schestowitz[TR2]; and he's just part of it

12:23 schestowitz[TR2]; microsoft also wants azure to take over

12:23 schestowitz[TR2]; and github be used as a weapon against aws

12:23 schestowitz[TR2]; but it has not worked so far

12:23 matey; truth vs marketing

12:23 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/2022/01/31/autonomy-of-free-software/

12:23 TR Bot; Microsoft GitHub Expos Part XVI The Attack on the Autonomy of Free Software Carries on | Techrights

12:24 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/2021/11/08/github-helps-microsoft-monopoly/

12:24 TR Bot; Any Ongoing Participation in GitHub Helps Microsoft Attack Free Software | Techrights

12:26 *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)

12:27 matey; http://techrights.org/2022/01/31/autonomy-of-free-software/ <- this was the dumbest article in the series

12:27 matey; i swear you wrote that one just to troll openbsd again

12:27 matey; some people wanted a problem

12:27 matey; they were told no, and why

12:27 matey; thats the whole store

12:27 matey; story

12:27 matey; from like how many years ago

12:27 matey; wank.

12:27 *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #techrights

12:28 matey; if people want to create a fork of openbsd on github, theyre always free to do so

12:28 matey; it will die instantly

12:28 matey; the openbsd developers have better things to do

12:29 matey; github doesnt fit their workflow. they dont need their time wasted with pull-your-dick requests

12:29 matey; but you took that old story and tried to make it look like a crisis

12:29 matey; really stretching that one as far as it can go

12:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

12:30 matey; the standard you hold openbsd to is laughable

12:30 matey; its not enough for them to do the right thing while others fuck up

12:30 matey; no, they also have to have everyone leave them alone and not try to tempt them

12:30 matey; because thats LOOMING, years ago

12:30 matey; its so ridiculous

12:30 matey; your bias is through the goddamned roof

12:31 matey; it has its own military

12:31 matey; and people who actually use bsd can see right through the sad joke it is

12:31 matey; youre just hating, the stories you "sound the alarm on" arent even news

12:31 matey; weve seen them. we saw them. and you dig WAY WAY back to find them

12:32 matey; bsd is obviously a threat to you

12:32 matey; no, we supported"

12:32 matey; no one needs that kind of support

12:32 matey; but if you want to undermine your credibility with your wikipedia-editor like assaults on bsd

12:32 matey; thats fine

12:32 matey; squander your credibility on that.

12:33 matey; ttp://techrights.org/2022/01/31/autonomy-of-free-software/ <- wank

12:33 matey; even if the intention was to include it for completeness / to be thorough

12:34 matey; the sheer amount of stretch makes the bias red-flag obvious

12:34 matey; this is a game on your part

12:34 matey; its not to be informative

12:34 matey; and if you think you can undermine them with this

12:34 matey; read the room

12:35 matey; everybody knows your stance on openbsd is nonsense

12:35 matey; theyve been the victim of double standards forever

12:35 matey; much like stallman vs torvalds

12:36 matey; if they do the same thing, stallman is a dick for it and torvalds is a god

12:36 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

12:36 matey; but one does it for the right reasons and other does it because whatever

12:36 matey; even when openbsd does the best thing in the whole bunch

12:36 matey; somehow, thats not good enough to get a fair shake

12:37 matey; and they dont even give a shit

12:37 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

12:37 matey; because they have better shit to do

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; us media likes finnnish torvalds

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; he's naturalised now

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; rms is not really american

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; stall-man

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; not tor-valds

12:37 matey; hes in california i think

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; no

12:37 matey; he belongs in california

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; oregon

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; he was in CA before

12:37 schestowitz[TR2]; becaue of transmeta

12:37 matey; oregon is just california with better weed

12:38 schestowitz[TR2]; lol

12:39 matey; my shitty algorithm is still running

12:39 matey; its been running for three hours (thats how you know its shitty)

12:39 matey; its only 15mb of text, dont be ridiculous

12:40 matey; on the nice side, the cpu isnt working too hard. i consider that a feature

12:40 matey; but if this were any slower it wouldnt even be worth running

12:40 matey; i could optimise it, but i rarely run it for anything that takes more than 1 minute. this is sort of a first.

12:41 matey; rather i could try to optimise it and it would probably work after a few tries

12:42 matey; i estimated it would run for an hour. i was clearly off

12:43 matey; its looping through 15mb of data a stupid number of times. even so, it should be fairly predictable how long it takes

12:43 matey; (the first thing it does is buffer all of that data in ram-- but after that its pretty conservative-- usage doesnt really go up from there)

12:44 matey; try that with firefox

12:44 matey; 3 hours later: "hey, im still using the same amount of ram-- wait, IM NOT FIREFOX!"

12:47 matey; theoretically it could double, but any data that would accomplish that wouldnt make it useful to run the program

12:48 matey; sorting whats basically already sorted is pointless

12:48 matey; also the program would be done really fucking quickly then

12:49 matey; hmm... no it wouldnt

12:49 matey; :)

12:50 TR News; EPO VP4 Nellie Simon: 24/7 Day and Night, Only One Hour to Speak to EPO Staff | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/too-busy-to-get-real-work-done/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/too-busy-to-get-real-work-done/

12:50 TR Bot; EPO VP4 Nellie Simon: 24/7 Day and Night, Only One Hour to Speak to EPO Staff | Techrights

12:50 matey; the worst part though is if i had redirected the output to a file, id know how far along it was

12:50 matey; instead, i used a buffer, so i wont know how long it really takes until its done

12:51 matey; which made sense when i thought i had estimated well enough

12:51 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

12:52 matey; even if it takes 5 hours its saving me time, and even if it didnt save time its saving effort

12:52 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

12:52 matey; but waiting is always fun

12:55 *psydruid would rather listen to Carly Simon

12:55 *techuser (~techuser@u6e4grxkxibun.irc) has joined #techrights

12:58 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

12:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

1 PM, July 29

13:00 matey; https://lwn.net/Articles/857791/

13:00 TR Bot; drops its copyright-assignment requirement [LWN.net]

13:00 matey; Posted Jun 2, 2021 22:03 UTC (Wed) by gnoutchd (subscriber, #121472) [Link]

13:00 matey; SFLC's analysis: https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2021/jun/02/gcc-statement/

13:00 TR Bot; GCC Drops Requirement of Copyright Assignment to FSF - Software Freedom Law Center

13:00 matey; (Disclaimer: I'm the sysadmin at SFLC.)

13:01 matey; https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2021/jun/02/gcc-statement/

13:01 matey; (not me obviously, im quoting that)

13:02 matey; "The effect of this change, as the GCC Steering Committee states, is to loosen the bonds between FSF and the GCC projects." <- eben moglen

13:05 psydruid; was Eben Moglen behind this change?

13:05 *techuser (~techuser@t7vv94aadcjny.irc) has joined #techrights

13:05 matey; no, hes a member of the audience

13:06 matey; one of the smarter members

13:06 matey; this brings gcc into the state that the linux kernel is in, regarding contributors

13:06 matey; we actually have a closer precident: llvm

13:06 matey; llvm tried to assign copyright to the fsf

13:06 matey; it failed

13:06 matey; the email was lost

13:07 matey; llvm of course, is doing REALLY well for it

13:07 *alextee (~alextee@fme9g3jbi568k.irc) has joined #techrights

13:07 matey; i mean, its successful, people use it

13:07 matey; but will it ever be free? thats a matter for debate

13:07 matey; free software, definitively requires freedom 3

13:08 matey; which some people treat as optional or good enough when its only theoretical

13:08 matey; llvm is a hostage of microsoft

13:08 matey; gcc is a hostage of ibm

13:08 matey; some people will call that freedom

13:09 matey; moglen does think as the "principle" copyright holder, fsf wont lose all their ability to defend

13:09 psydruid; freedom to roam freely in a cage at the zoo

13:09 matey; he didnt comment on whether fsf is likely to defend anythin

13:09 matey; freedom to roam freely in a cage <- basically

13:18 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

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13:27 TR News; Microsoft Windows in Chinese Desktops/Laptops Down to 80% (Hence Microsoft Started Blocking GNU/Linux From Even Booting, as Chinas Lenovo Demonstrates) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/windows-in-china/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/windows-in-china/

13:27 TR Bot; Microsoft Windows in Chinese Desktops/Laptops Down to 80% (Hence Microsoft Started Blocking GNU/Linux From Even Booting, as Chinas Lenovo Demonstrates) | Techrights

13:33 *liberty_box (~liberty@hcdms2vr9hu9e.irc) has joined #techrights

13:33 *rianne (~rianne@freenode-i33.jp8.7132oi.IP) has joined #techrights

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13:37 TR News; "On all of the machines that I can readily get statistics for" https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSIndividualVsAggregatedIOs | Source: uni Toronto

13:37 TR Bot; Chris's Wiki :: blog/solaris/ZFSIndividualVsAggregatedIOs

13:37 TR News; "I chose Godot and liked it a lot" https://tonsky.me/blog/dice-out/ | Source: Nikita Prokopov

13:37 TR Bot; Game Jam 2022: Dice Out @ tonsky.me

13:38 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

13:38 *techuser (~techuser@3fwq6apsn2jv4.irc) has joined #techrights

13:39 TR News; "Forget binary sleep and wake." https://staceyoniot.com/forget-sleep-and-wake-its-time-to-embrace-ambient-mode/ | Source: Stacy on IoT

13:39 TR Bot; Forget sleep and wake; it's time to embrace ambient mode - Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis

13:39 TR News; "The goal of this project was to provide a solid alternative at a very low price" https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/pico-playstation-memcard-the-magpi-120/ | Source: Raspberry Pi

13:39 TR Bot; Pico PlayStation MemCard | The MagPi #120 - Raspberry Pi

13:39 TR News; "Now TIC-80 is open source. Well, at least the basic version." https://warmedal.se/~bjorn/posts/2022-07-27-pico-8-and-tic-80.html | Source: Bjrn Wrmedal

13:39 TR Bot; PICO-8 and TIC-80 - Bjrn Wrmedal

13:40 TR News; "GPS is perfect for navigating roads, because that doesnt require much precision." https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/27/centimeter-scale-lawn-mower-positioning-without-gps-rtk/ | Source: Arduino

13:40 TR Bot; Centimeter-scale lawn mower positioning without GPS RTK | Arduino Blog

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13:41 TR News; "Conciseness is often considered a virtue among hackers and software engineers." https://drewdevault.com/2022/07/26/Conciseness.html | Source: Drew DeVault

13:41 TR Bot; Conciseness

13:43 TR News; "What if you could use a Lisp inside a spreadsheet?" https://matt-rickard.com/spreadsheets-and-lisp/ | Source: Matt Rickard

13:43 TR Bot; Lisp and Spreadsheets

13:43 TR News; "If you're an IT or software team that uses Python along with corporate system certificates" https://sethmlarson.dev/blog/help-test-system-trust-stores-in-python?date=2022-07-26 | Source: Seth Michael Larson

13:43 TR Bot; Help us test system trust stores in Python

13:44 *techuser (~techuser@rveqc6vm79n24.irc) has joined #techrights

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; mjg59_: you can get Microsoft MVP award

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; to go well with the FSF award

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; FSF award for helping Microsoft

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; in attacking gnu/linux

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; <techrights-news> Microsoft Windows in Chinese Desktops/Laptops Down to 80% (Hence Microsoft Started Blocking GNU/Linux From Even Booting, as Chinas Lenovo Demonstrates) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/windows-in-china/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/windows-in-china/

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; FSF will have further bad karma over this

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; in light of recent nerws

13:45 schestowitz[TR2]; Lenovvo, Kaspersky etc.

13:46 schestowitz[TR2]; and it'll lead back to your posts

13:46 schestowitz[TR2]; which did not age well at all

13:49 matey; FSF will have further bad karma over this <- what fsf

13:50 schestowitz[TR2]; FSF will send a cabinet

13:50 matey; "this will certainly teach jimmy hoffa a lesson"

13:50 schestowitz[TR2]; that can home the FSF award/shield thing

13:50 matey; doubtful

13:50 schestowitz[TR2]; along with the MVP award

13:50 schestowitz[TR2]; MicrosoFSF

13:50 matey; heh

13:50 schestowitz[TR2]; "Secure" cabinet

13:50 matey; oh...

13:51 matey; funny thing, i bet mjg comes clean before fsf does

13:51 matey; im not saying its likely, just more likely

13:51 *Despatche has quit (Quit: Read error: Connection reset by deer)

13:52 matey; some signers will recant, not many, not most

13:52 matey; some orgs are destroyed

13:52 matey; some recanters will be sincere, others wont

13:52 matey; i suspect very little (of this) will change that hasnt already

13:53 matey; federation was (imo) always inevitable, will remain so

13:53 matey; federation is hard to build-- it wasnt any easier in historical examples

13:53 matey; but worth it

13:53 matey; and in those examples, the "central node" DID fail

13:53 matey; and the federation is whats left of that

13:53 matey; and the central node is dead

13:53 matey; just like the fsf

13:54 matey; its not ideal. ideal would be, the fsf stayed, the federation worked with it

13:54 matey; but of the central node is corrupted, or fails, the point of federation is to keep going

13:54 matey; free software is not an option

13:55 matey; if we cannot have free software, we should not use computers

13:55 matey; program or be programmed

13:55 matey; its either a tool in our hands, or a yoke on our neck

13:55 matey; thats whats weird about mjg

13:55 matey; when its yoke in practice, he focuses so much on the potential for a tool in our hands

13:56 matey; but sometimes just a bit too much

13:56 matey; maybe thats the true (esr) hacker mentality

13:56 matey; doesnt matter what it does, WE CAN USE THIS for something

13:56 matey; thats cool. but maybe the landmines should be removed and disarmed.

13:56 matey; not hacked

13:57 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

13:57 matey; just removed and disarmed

13:57 matey; and since he always spends SOME time on that side of the rhetoric

13:57 matey; we cant just reduce what he says to some one-sided strawman

13:57 matey; it looks sloppy

13:57 matey; (we totally can, if we denounce the rest as arse-covering bullshit)

13:58 matey; but for extra points, anyone who wants to can yknow

13:58 matey; explore whatever... i mean, its here

13:58 matey; i solved a local tech mystery btw

13:58 matey; i wont say what it is

13:58 matey; but this has gone on for weeks or longer, and i solved it this morning

13:59 matey; not local localhost local

13:59 matey; local regionally local

13:59 matey; literally in the past hour

13:59 matey; sometimes you have to find the right person to talk to

13:59 TR News; "Ive been in the world of HTML emails lately so the wounds are still fresh" https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2022/html-email-rant/ | Source: Jim Nielsen

13:59 TR Bot; HTML Emails: A Rant - Jim Nielsens Blog

2 PM, July 29

14:00 matey; mjg is our most prominent glimpse into the coup

14:00 matey; for better or worse. i have no idea how much good that does at all.

14:00 matey; possibly less than none. possibly some. maybe both somehow

14:00 matey; but hes here after all

14:00 matey; a hostile witness that just wont go away :)

14:01 matey; but a witness nonetheless

14:04 TR News; "Information camouflage is when piece of information A has a name similar to another" https://buttondown.email/hillelwayne/archive/information-camouflage/ | Source: Buttondown

14:04 TR Bot; Information camouflage Buttondown

14:04 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=7Wa1tafVp5I my favourite thing today

14:04 TR Bot; Putin sings russian winnie the pooh - Invidious

14:05 matey; this is nearly as much fun as hitler reacts

14:05 *techuser (~techuser@vd4283mvfyqgk.irc) has joined #techrights

14:05 matey; i know, usually pooh is a chinese leader, not a russian one

14:06 matey; i dont know if techuser will enjoy or not https://yewtu.be/watch?v=7Wa1tafVp5I

14:06 matey; hi

14:06 techuser; what is it about?

14:06 matey; its putin singing winnie the pooh in russian

14:06 matey; deepfaked

14:06 matey; its rather stupid

14:06 techuser; not now though, using a limited Internet connection because my main one died

14:06 matey; thats the only appeal

14:07 techuser; and this one can die anytime

14:07 matey; id love to know how you got a second one

14:07 matey; borrowing wifi?

14:07 techuser; wi-fi from a mobile Internet

14:07 matey; oh yeah

14:07 matey; i keep forgetting people do that

14:08 matey; ive even done that before, before most people tried it

14:08 matey; even flipphones can do that now

14:08 matey; because even flipphones have an increasingly sophisticated os

14:09 matey; for better or worse

14:09 matey; one day there will be just one flipphone left

14:09 matey; and the fucker will run android

14:10 matey; hopefully by then i wont need a mobile phone

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; some still do

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; (run android)

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; mobile phones are needed for some people

14:10 matey; understood

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; like, travelling salespeople

14:10 matey; id like to not be a person that needs one

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; for many others imho

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; they THINK they need them

14:10 matey; and i keep it minimal as fuck

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; becauase they cannot envision a day without one

14:10 schestowitz[TR2]; and they did not even try

14:10 matey; i think there are good reasons to have a mobile phone

14:10 matey; most people dont need one

14:11 matey; yeah most wont even try

14:11 schestowitz[TR2]; what are the good reasons in your personal case?

14:11 matey; me, i plan my life around getting rid of mine

14:11 schestowitz[TR2]; time= pda, watch

14:11 matey; among other more important priorities

14:11 schestowitz[TR2]; emergency = people are you can call

14:11 schestowitz[TR2]; maps = print some

14:11 matey; what are the good reasons in your personal case? <- if youre asking me, i dont get into details like that

14:12 matey; suffice it to say that im passionate about getting rid of it

14:12 matey; and i have a long track record of ditching tech i dont like

14:12 matey; even if it takes a couple years

14:15 TR News; Proprietary Shopify = failure" https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/shopify-jobs-1.6532165?cmp=rss | Source: CBC

14:15 TR Bot; Shopify laying off 10% of staff as explosive pandemic growth fizzles | CBC News

14:15 TR News; Proprietary lockin https://earthly.dev/blog/terraform-state-bucket/ | Source: Earthly

14:15 TR Bot; S3 Terraform Backend - Earthly Blog

14:15 TR News; Proprietary crap from a serial fraudster and pathological liar https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/starlinks-current-problem-capacity | Source: Jeff Geerling

14:15 TR Bot; Starlink's current problem is capacity | Jeff Geerling

14:15 TR News; Proprietary https://matt-rickard.com/dont-be-scared-of-vendor-lock-in/ | Source: Matt Rickard

14:15 TR Bot; Don't Be Scared of Cloud Lock-in

14:16 TR News; "Earlier I described the Plausibly Deniable DataBase (PDDB)." https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=6449 | Source: Bunnie Huang

14:16 TR Bot; The Plausibly Deniable DataBase (PDDB): Its Real Now! bunnie's blog

14:17 TR News; "In 2018 I helped the Internet Archive get a two-year Mellon Foundation grant aimed at preserving the "long tail" of academic literature" https://blog.dshr.org/2022/07/the-internet-archives-long-tail-program.html | Source: David Rosenthal

14:17 TR Bot; DSHR's Blog: The Internet Archive's "Long Tail" Program

14:17 TR News; "The law of contempt, like the criminal law, can be stretched to save those who chastise judges" https://www.freepressjournal.in/analysis/law-can-be-stretched-to-stonewall-questions-on-pegasus | Source: Free Press Journal

14:17 TR Bot; Law can be stretched to stonewall questions on Pegasus

14:18 matey; freedom, when applied and not merely promised in a license or on a piece of parchment

14:18 matey; means you can change or get rid of things you dont like (within reason of course)

14:18 matey; thats what it works out to on average

14:18 matey; theres good and bad in life, freedom wont change that

14:19 matey; what it means is that we can work towards that goal

14:19 TR News; "I'm a retired software engineer so I focus here on the technological risks." https://blog.dshr.org/2022/07/regulating-digital-assets.html | Source: David Rosenthal

14:19 TR Bot; DSHR's Blog: Regulating "Digital Assets"

14:19 matey; oppression tries to constantly thwart such efforts

14:19 matey; thats what giafam does

14:19 matey; so to enlist them as allies is basically insane

14:19 matey; but then

14:19 matey; esr is basically insane

14:19 schestowitz[TR2]; esrane

14:21 TR News; "Conspiracy theories aren't a new phenomenon" https://text.npr.org/1113855150 | Source: NPR

14:21 TR Bot; A Georgia monument was destroyed. Locals blame conspiracy theories

14:22 TR News; "The Press and Registration of Books (PRB) Act" https://www.freepressjournal.in/analysis/proposed-bill-to-control-digital-media-is-worrying | Source: Free Press Journal

14:22 TR Bot; Proposed bill to control digital media is worrying

14:23 TR News; [Old] "post on Instagram saying she was taken to the police station " https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ovsyannikova-yashin-ukraine/31947497.html | Source: RFERL

14:23 TR Bot; Russian TV Journalist Who Protested War On-Air Arrested

14:23 TR News; "appeared in court over subsequent social media posts" https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-journalist-marina-ovsyannikova-fined-b2133237.html | Source: The Independent UK

14:23 TR Bot; Russia finds journalist Marina Ovsyannikova guilty of discrediting army | The Independent

14:23 TR News; "After sending troops to Ukraine, Moscow adopted laws imposing sentences of up to 15 years in prison for spreading information about the military deemed false" https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0728/1312775-russian-editor-fined/ | Source: RTE

14:23 TR Bot; Russian court fines Ukraine protest TV journalist

14:24 TR News; "After the heinous beheading of Kanhiya Lal in Udaipur, the incidents of death threats and controversial posts on social media" https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/prophet-row-rajasthan-man-offers-house-property-to-anyone-who-beheads-nupur-sharma | Source: Free Press Journal

14:24 TR Bot; Prophet row: Rajasthan man offers house, property to anyone who beheads Nupur Sharma

14:25 matey; esssridiculous

14:25 matey; but he did like he said

14:25 matey; he expanded free software to all the corporations

14:25 matey; who then remade it in their own image

14:25 matey; rendering the whole fucking thing worthless

14:26 schestowitz[TR2]; "but eric"

14:26 schestowitz[TR2]; "that was RMS'

14:26 schestowitz[TR2]; "not craif mundie!"

14:26 matey; and all we had to do is bend over a lot and say "this is how we defeat you"

14:26 matey; yeah well

14:26 matey; he squints a lot

14:26 schestowitz[TR2]; "I'm your vvvvorsst bed bug"

14:27 matey; maybe when you make that face he makes all the time, craig mundie and rms look similar

14:27 schestowitz[TR2]; I think he has a syndrome

14:27 schestowitz[TR2]; but not sure

14:27 matey; i think he does too

14:27 schestowitz[TR2]; based on body/head promprtion

14:27 schestowitz[TR2]; and hand length

14:27 schestowitz[TR2]; I don't know the names of these chromosome things and I might b e wrong

14:28 matey; but im not above making fun of it, when he pulled the same shit phiipps did about rms

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; I know

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; you said he squints

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; I think it is related

14:28 matey; and perens had cerebral palsy

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; yeah

14:28 matey; yeah esr has some genetic thing

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; phipps is totally normal

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; but rianne saw a video of him

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; re kde neon

14:28 schestowitz[TR2]; said phispps looks like a trans woman

14:28 matey; phipps looks like holly from red dwarf

14:29 matey; when she became female (i think given that shes a holographic ai, this isnt the wrong terminology, but im open to suggestions)

14:29 matey; but i thought holly was cute

14:29 matey; i suppose phipps could be too, if he took better care of himself

14:29 matey; personality is a deal breaker

14:30 matey; technically speaking, what your wife said is transphobic

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; i think it was not the voice

14:30 matey; because what does a trans woman look like?

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; but the china, the long hair

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; and the weight excess

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; *chins

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; nbot china

14:30 schestowitz[TR2]; *not

14:31 matey; btw, im against painting someones entire personality based on a single comment, a la milkshake duck

14:31 matey; its a mistake in more ways than one

14:31 schestowitz[TR2]; rms thinks microwaves will have alexa

14:31 schestowitz[TR2]; before alexa exists

14:31 matey; unless maybe they run across a stage at the oscars and say "KILL ALL THE JEWS!"

14:31 schestowitz[TR2]; that f**ing fool!!

14:31 matey; then one comment might be enough :)

14:31 *Despatche (~desp@u3xy9z2ifjzci.irc) has joined #techrights

14:32 matey; even then, you know if they had just been hit by a car or something

14:32 matey; and were fucking delerious

14:32 matey; i can see excusing that until it turns out to be a trend

14:32 TR News; "" https://www.r-bloggers.com/2022/07/posit-why-rstudio-is-changing-its-name/ | Source: Rlang

14:32 TR Bot; Why Rstudio is changing its name | R-bloggers

14:32 TR News; "So while you will see our name change in a bunch of places" https://www.r-bloggers.com/2022/07/rstudio-is-becoming-posit/ | Source: Rlang

14:32 TR Bot; is becoming Posit | R-bloggers

14:33 matey; im sure howard stern has said worse

14:33 matey; but since hes anti-roger-waters im sure hes golden with the adl

14:33 matey; if being against apartheid means youre anti-semitic, im willing to have the label for that

14:34 matey; i know plenty of people on the left, including left israelis who agree with me on that issue

14:35 matey; if roger waters is wrong, id love to see stern say something smart about it

14:35 matey; but he totally takes sides, and the wrong one

14:37 matey; einstein was against it too

14:38 matey; a LOT of jewish intellectuals were

14:38 matey; and are

14:38 matey; but the msm sides mostly with the side waters and einstein were against

14:39 matey; it would be cool if stern had a reasonable argument to make. he does at least explain, but it mostly comes down to "they have a right to defend themselves"

14:39 matey; yeah, but the other side doesnt.

14:39 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

14:39 matey; have fun with that

14:39 matey; hi britney

14:39 britney; matey, hi

14:41 matey; "they have a right to defend themselves" is a little bit glib in explaining either side

14:41 matey; maybe moreso though from the side with all the money, all the "right" to be there regardless of dispute, all the nuclear capabilities and all the allies.

14:41 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

14:41 matey; thats just a bit much

14:41 matey; oh and the support of the global msm too

14:41 matey; just a little thing

14:42 matey; whatever the msm says about who should go to war with whom

14:42 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

14:42 matey; im sure theyre impartial and we shouldnt consider which oligarchs own them

14:42 MinceR; 29 151140 < schestowitz[TR2]> maps = print some

14:42 MinceR; waste of paper

14:43 TR News; Microleaves https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/07/breach-exposes-users-of-microleaves-proxy-service/ | Source: Krebs On Security

14:43 TR Bot; Breach Exposes Users of Microleaves Proxy Service Krebs on Security

14:43 matey; maps dont waste too much paper if you only buy the ones you need

14:43 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: phone = waste of battery, mined material

14:43 matey; or only a print one occasionally

14:44 matey; phones would be so wasteful if they werent designed to be disposable

14:44 matey; a phone should be good for 10 years

14:44 matey; im not saying it is, im not saying that isnt a hilarious thought

14:44 schestowitz[TR2]; at least

14:44 XRevan86; > (13:04:56) matey: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=7Wa1tafVp5I my favourite thing today

14:44 XRevan86; hah!

14:44 TR Bot; Putin sings russian winnie the pooh - Invidious

14:44 matey; :)

14:44 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

14:45 matey; this fucking algorithm

14:45 matey; is sleeping on the couch tonight

14:45 MinceR; also, apparently there's no better public domain equivalent license than the cc0

14:45 matey; depends

14:45 matey; mostly, i agree

14:45 XRevan86; https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/07/29/graphic-video-published-on-social-media-shows-two-men-in-military-uniform-castrating-soldier-who-appears-to-be-ukrainian-pow-news "Graphic video published on social media shows two men castrating and brutally murdering soldier in Ukrainian uniform"

14:45 TR Bot; .

14:45 XRevan86; https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/07/29/dpr-officials-say-40-ukrainian-pows-killed-at-prison-near-donetsk-following-missile-strike-news "DPR officials say 40 Ukrainian POWs killed at prison near Donetsk following missile strike"

14:45 TR Bot; .

14:46 matey; what do you really want from cc0?

14:46 matey; it may be the best, but you can get the 99% of it that actually matters in real life from A LOT LESS text

14:46 matey; and if you really think cc0 is best... just use cc0 then

14:47 matey; the one drawback-- and ive personally disputed it for years!

14:47 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

14:47 matey; is that it might suck as a free software license

14:47 matey; despite the fsf listing it as a gpl-compatible free softwre license.

14:47 matey; MIGHT suck as one.

14:47 MinceR; public domain when possible and meaningful; fallback to a license that is as permissive as possible when not

14:47 matey; according to, in chronological order:

14:47 matey; karl fogel, voting at osi

14:48 MinceR; the only thing i used cc0 for was my fvwm configuration

14:48 matey; osi, resulting from karl fogels vote

14:48 matey; and ibm, who are obviously the very last word on reality itself

14:48 matey; thats another factor

14:48 matey; when you consider the sheer dearth of cc0-licensed software

14:48 matey; and i do...

14:48 matey; it hasnt really been picked up for that purpose, and now likely never will be

14:48 matey; even before this, it was a long shot.

14:49 matey; its been a long shot at least since fogel voted dont approve more than a decade ago

14:49 MinceR; maybe someone will write a derivative without the patent threat

14:49 MinceR; instead of just whining about it

14:49 matey; i mean its like a bicycle with 5 wheels

14:49 matey; no one really needs one

14:49 matey; 4 is useful, 3 can be argued, 2 is classic

14:49 matey; but 5 is useless

14:50 matey; and this is from one of cc0s biggest fans

14:50 XRevan86; "DPR officials say 40 Ukrainian POWs killed at prison near Donetsk following missile strike" <- https://pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/29/7360850/

14:50 TR Bot; Russians struck Olenivka to cover up the torture and execution of prisoners ? General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine | Ukrainska Pravda

14:50 matey; im all for tilting at windmills

14:50 matey; but this windmill just isnt going to spin

14:51 matey; for software, and applicable to other works

14:51 matey; 0 clause bsd is the best alternative i can think of

14:51 matey; and ive thought about it

14:51 matey; as a bonus, you can fit the whole license in 3 comments.

14:51 matey; try it with cc0.

14:51 matey; now, 0 clause bsd isnt actually a pd dedication

14:51 matey; youd need ONE more line for that.

14:52 matey; heres what you do (imo)

14:52 matey; you license it 0 clause bsd. that takes care of finland and ibms patent whinging

14:52 matey; i dont give two tugs of a dead dogs cock what ibm thinks

14:52 matey; im thinking about the people who care what they think

14:52 MinceR; https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y6djzYnU9X4/Uo1dEm5J9PI/AAAAAAAAAy4/5iD62fQK9FM/s1600/steering_wheel.jpg

14:52 MinceR; add training wheels

14:53 matey; nice

14:53 MinceR; and you end up with a bicycle with 5 wheels, all useful

14:53 matey; this is what i like about you

14:53 matey; youre basically the black knight, but with an argument

14:53 MinceR; i think i'll leave the revision of cc0 or 0bsd to jurists

14:53 *psymin (~psymin@me3biw7mdts84.irc) has joined #techrights

14:53 matey; anyway

14:54 *psymin (~psymin@user/psymin) has joined #techrights

14:54 matey; suppose for example, you use 0 clause bsd

14:54 matey; that does everything the cc0 fallback does

14:54 matey; arguably better

14:54 matey; then after you license it 0 clause

14:54 matey; you use a one line pd dedication

14:55 matey; voila, roll your own cc0

14:55 matey; unless cc0 does exactly what people expect it to

14:55 matey; its a gimmick

14:55 matey; its like peanut butter and jelly in the same jar

14:55 matey; yes that exists

14:55 TR News; ProPublica pretends to care about children while bagging bribes from Bill Gates, who helped Epstein smuggle thousands of underage girls for sexual exploitation https://www.propublica.org/getinvolved/help-us-investigate-termination-of-parental-rights-in-the-child-welfare-system | Source: Pro Publica

14:55 TR Bot; Help Us Investigate Termination of Parental Rights in the Child Welfare System ProPublica

14:56 TR News; mentions "open source", finally https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/let's-talk-about-the-next-phase-of-my:c

14:56 TR Bot; let's talk about the next phase of my life

14:56 TR News; I Escaped From YouTube Jail!! https://odysee.com/@BrodieRobertson:5/i-escaped-from-youtube-jail!!:c Source: Brodie Robertson

14:56 TR Bot; I Escaped From YouTube Jail!!

14:56 matey; but the fallback only does anything where the pd dedication doesnt work

14:56 matey; and theres really not much to a functioning pd dedication

14:57 matey; the only thing existing solutions lack

14:57 matey; is another pb&j in the same jar

14:57 matey; i think cc0 was a great idea

14:57 matey; if they wanted it to stand up to this fud, cc could be a viable... oh well

14:57 matey; cc is worthless, and that really hurts this

14:58 matey; so you have this gimmicky license, a bunch of fud, and no org to stand up to the fud

14:58 MinceR; 29 155545 < matey> its like peanut butter and jelly in the same jar

14:58 matey; this isnt a workable thing

14:58 MinceR; it would be, if reality was as broken as legal code is

14:58 MinceR; and the "justice" system

14:59 matey; <MinceR> it would be, if reality was as broken as legal code is <- :) fair point

14:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

14:59 matey; fortunately for the human race, it takes longer for legal bs to break reality than it takses for legal bullshitters to break it on paper

14:59 matey; good example: patriot act

3 PM, July 29

15:00 matey; on paper it rips the constitution in two and wipes bush/bidens arse with it

15:00 matey; in practice the constution slowly dissolves over a few decades and just smells like biden arsehole

15:01 matey; which is honestly better

15:01 matey; because its been 21 years

15:01 matey; better still would be if anyone gave a shit

15:02 matey; they will, but you have to squint like esr to see them right now

15:02 matey; is that craig mundie?

15:03 MinceR; in a world/country where the majority are authoritarian savages, no constitution is likely to work

15:03 matey; i dont think the majority are authoritarian savages

15:03 matey; however, thats an understandable mistake under the circumstances

15:03 matey; the majority are hostages who honestly dont know wtf is going on-- but they think they do, and theyre pissed

15:04 matey; what do you get when you cross bipolar disorder with stockholm syndrome?

15:04 matey; america. youre welcome.

15:04 MinceR; well, let's see

15:04 MinceR; in dictatorships like red china, the state brainwashes most people to be authoritarians

15:04 MinceR; in "western" dictatorship, typically 50% of the voters are "conservative"

15:05 MinceR; "conservative" (i.e. fascist) parties are formally allied with fidSS and/or PiS

15:05 MinceR; none of those parties declared that what fidSS and PiS did (turning a republic into a dictatorship) is incompatible with "conservative" values

15:05 matey; are we talking about america or another country

15:05 matey; and is america formally allied with fidss and/or pis?

15:05 MinceR; therefore turning republics into dictatorships is compatible with "conservative" values

15:05 matey; therefore turning republics into dictatorships is compatible with "conservative" values <- this i dont dispute

15:06 matey; but the part that got you there, im curious about

15:06 MinceR; the "republican" party of the USA is a member of the international "democrat" union >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union

15:06 TR Bot; International Democrat Union - Wikipedia

15:07 matey; lol

15:07 MinceR; and so is fideath

15:07 matey; oh ok

15:07 matey; ive never heard of the international democrat union. is it really that meaningful an alliance?

15:08 matey; i mean mexico is part of nafta, but i dont blame mexico for that

15:09 matey; (i realise defending republicans is a waste of time, but im only trying to figure out if they really support fidss and/or pis, so this is for that purpose)

15:09 MinceR; apparently they like to pretend they stand for "democracy" while demolishing it

15:09 matey; granted its basically the trump party now, and has fuck-all to do with what republicans were about when the party formed

15:09 matey; rino <- republican in name only

15:10 matey; apparently they like to pretend they stand for "democracy" while demolishing it <- thats a theme that goes way beyond the idu

15:10 *techuser (~techuser@erxpgrmsmh6uw.irc) has joined #techrights

15:10 MinceR; the "republicans" had fuck-all to do with what they were about when the party formed even before former president Traffic Cone of Treason came out of the woodwork

15:10 MinceR; indeed it does

15:10 MinceR; it's what "conservatism" (i.e. fascism) is all about

15:10 matey; i try not to conflate the two

15:10 matey; not because theyre entirely separate-- theyre not

15:11 MinceR; too late, they already did

15:11 matey; not because either deserves better-- they dont

15:11 matey; only because sometimes its useful to distinguish things for strategic purposes

15:11 matey; and i think that applies here

15:11 matey; of course that doesnt matter if you consider the prognosis hopeless

15:12 TR News; Is this the Society You Want? https://odysee.com/@RobBraxmanTech:6/society2:e Source: RobBraxmanTech | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//odysee.com/@RobBraxmanTech:6/society2:e

15:12 TR Bot; Is this the Society You Want?

15:12 matey; im only interested in saving the world, i could give a shit about the republican party

15:12 MinceR; point is, even in the allegedly "free" world, ~50% of the population voluntarily sides with "conservatives" who promote dictatorships

15:12 TR News; Majority of Early Career Scientists Want to Publish Open Access, but Face Financial Barriers - SoylentNews https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=22/07/28/0247217 Source: soylentnews | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=22/07/28/0247217

15:12 TR Bot; Majority of Early Career Scientists Want to Publish Open Access, but Face Financial Barriers - SoylentNews

15:12 matey; well the "free" world is just the corporate world

15:12 MinceR; it's not possible to do anything worthwhile with humanity, except let it go

15:12 matey; so thats out

15:13 MinceR; maybe replace it with something that can think for itself and survive global warming -- a general AI

15:13 matey; i dont get the ai savior meme at all

15:13 matey; corporations do exactly what ai does

15:13 MinceR; then there's no savior

15:13 XRevan86; Did Russia just execute the Azov soldiers without taking any responsibility?

15:13 MinceR; there is only oblivion

15:13 matey; maximise some bullshit factor we thought would save us all

15:14 matey; you put too little stock in people

15:14 matey; when the problem is theyve put too much stock in other bullshit

15:14 TR News; You Wanna Help My Plant? gemini://warmedal.se/~bjorn/posts/2022-07-29-you-wanna-help-my-plant.gmi

15:14 matey; what if oblivion is a myth and there are an infinite number of us

15:15 matey; and when you die, there are still a fucking infinite number of you left

15:15 matey; not here, i mean everywhere.

15:15 TR News; How to start an unencrypted chat on Matrix (Element) gemini://cadence.moe/gemlog/2022-07-29-unencrypted-chat-on-matrix.bliz

15:15 matey; i dont mean you come back

15:15 matey; i mean youre still playing everywhere but where you died

15:15 MinceR; i've explained why people do not deserve to have stock put in them

15:16 matey; you havent explained why ai deserves better

15:16 MinceR; 29 161508 < matey> and when you die, there are still a fucking infinite number of you left

15:16 MinceR; well, that's sadistic enough to be possible

15:16 matey; <MinceR> well, that's sadistic enough to be possible <- isnt it though

15:16 matey; its just like the fucking universe to pull some shit like that

15:16 TR News; Invest in your browser, not crap https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/new-mozilla-docuseries-firefox-presents-launch/ | Source: Mozilla

15:16 MinceR; an AI can only be implemented by the minority that has a functioning brain

15:16 TR Bot; New Mozilla Docuseries Firefox Presents Celebrates Creators

15:16 MinceR; that already excludes most of the authoritarian savages

15:17 techuser; Skywave did mention this iirc

15:17 matey; mention what

15:17 matey; which part of it

15:17 MinceR; and while the authoritarian rabble prevents such a minority from doing just about anything meaningful, once humanity wipes itself out, they will no longer be able to do so

15:17 matey; oh the ai thing? its a stupid idea

15:17 techuser; what MinceR said

15:17 TR News; "In this guide, we walk you through the installation of Manjaro 21 GNOME Edition" https://www.tecmint.com/install-manjaro-gnome/ | Source: TecMint

15:17 TR Bot; Installation of Manjaro 21 (GNOME Edition) Desktop

15:17 matey; i mean they already do it in neon genesis ffs

15:17 TR News; "The VLC media player is arguably one of the most widely used media players." https://www.tecmint.com/tips-vlc-player-linux/ | Source: TecMint

15:17 matey; and it doesnt work there either

15:17 TR Bot; Useful Tips For VLC Player Users in Linux Desktop

15:17 matey; it barely holds shit together

15:17 matey; and whats the backup to the ai?

15:18 matey; a bunch of kids dressed like fucking robots

15:18 matey; so theres your ai

15:18 MinceR; i thought the backup were the 2 other instances

15:18 MinceR; also, that's fiction

15:18 matey; i mean when the shtf you have it cleaned up by the kids in robot suits

15:18 techuser; idk what "me/you" would mean here, but our mind is influenced by society definitely

15:18 matey; i mean if we are talking ai saving the world, fiction is definitely where you would start

15:18 TR News; SolidRun https://linuxgizmos.com/solidrun-presents-solidwan-devices-with-ports-dedicated-ethernet-sfp-support/ | Source: Linux Gizmos

15:18 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/solidrun-presents-solidwan-devices-with-ports-dedicated-ethernet-sfp-support/ )

15:19 TR News; "Dash is one of the least known names when you think about shell family." https://linuxhandbook.com/dash-shell/ | Source: Linux Handbook

15:19 matey; its not evidence, its just exploration of the idea

15:19 TR Bot; What is Dash Shell in Linux?

15:19 MinceR; it will be cleaned up by an atmosphere humans can't survive in

15:19 MinceR; possibly by global nuclear winter

15:19 matey; what we need is ri

15:19 MinceR; it will be like pest control

15:19 matey; which may also be fiction :)

15:19 techuser; what is ri?

15:19 matey; <MinceR> it will be like pest control <- too hitlery for my taste

15:20 techuser; anyway, Skywave wants AI takeover

15:20 matey; ri = real intelligence

15:20 MinceR; RI is a myth

15:20 techuser; replacing humans with bots

15:20 matey; ai has done nothing ever to inspire confidence as a leader

15:20 MinceR; there is no need for leaders

15:20 matey; hell, go back and watch the classic trek with nomad

15:20 matey; that spanked the perfect ai idea to hell

15:20 MinceR; the whole "leader" meme is only good for giving sociopaths all the power they want

15:20 matey; <MinceR> the whole "leader" meme is only good for giving sociopaths all the power they want <- ai would maximise that, not minimise it

15:21 MinceR; considering what we're comparing it to, it doesn't need to be perfect

15:21 matey; its a fucking terribile idea

15:21 MinceR; sociopaths won't survive

15:21 techuser; I have no faith in society

15:21 matey; <MinceR> considering what we're comparing it to, it doesn't need to be perfect <- this is the fallacy that would wipe us out instantly, and you wouldnt complain even if you could

15:21 matey; if we are going to destroy ourselves anyway, we dont need to build an ai to do it

15:21 TR News; "This is the first part of beginner's video editing tutorial with OpenShot" https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2022/07/openshot-video-editing-part-1.html | Source: Ubuntubuzz

15:21 TR Bot; OpenShot Video Editing Part 1: Getting Started

15:22 MinceR; indeed

15:22 MinceR; that is not the role of the AI in this

15:22 matey; <techuser> I have no faith in society <- to be fair, you dont get out much

15:22 MinceR; humanity will wipe itself out quite nicely

15:22 matey; <MinceR> that is not the role of the AI in this <- thats what it would do

15:22 MinceR; to be fair, human society doesn't deserve any faith

15:22 matey; <matey> <techuser> I have no faith in society <- to be fair, you dont get out much <- to be afair, theres a war on

15:23 techuser; maybe evolution creating a human was a mistake

15:23 techuser; two missiles did hit my city yesterday

15:23 techuser; the other time they can kill me

15:23 matey; yeah thats a valid point

15:23 matey; having a good reason (even a few) to be isolated

15:23 matey; doesnt change the fact that being isolated makes it a lot harder to judge society reasonably

15:24 MinceR; if life on earth wants to survive past the Sun boiling away our atmosphere and water, it needs intelligence

15:24 matey; its sort of an ivory tower effect

15:24 MinceR; too bad it only evolved humans instead

15:24 matey; without the ivory

15:24 matey; <MinceR> if life on earth wants to survive past the Sun boiling away our atmosphere and water, it needs intelligence <- yeah

15:24 techuser; will humans even survive to this point?

15:24 techuser; or just some random war destroys them all eventually

15:24 matey; obviously first on the agenda is dialing down humanitys threat to itself

15:25 MinceR; humans will wipe themselves out, though i wonder what method they'll go with

15:25 matey; fixing that will only help our odds of outrunning the sun

15:25 MinceR; just making the planet uninhabitable for themselves

15:25 MinceR; or war

15:25 TR News; Hacking osu!lazer for fun and fun gemini://cadence.moe/gemlog/2022-04-07-hacking-osu-lazer-for-fun-and-fun.bliz

15:25 MinceR; or some sort of faster human-made catastrophe

15:25 MinceR; or uncontrollable population decline in a resource crisis

15:26 matey; all valid points

15:26 MinceR; or genocide

15:26 MinceR; also, i wonder what will the criteria be for war/genocide

15:26 matey; what would you recommend

15:26 MinceR; religion, race, ethnicity, sex, sexual preference

15:26 matey; none of the above

15:26 MinceR; i would recommend getting rid of all the savages and idiots and authoritarians and starting society over

15:26 MinceR; maybe dump them in red china

15:27 matey; thats not a genetic issue, its a political one

15:27 matey; genocide wont fix anything, because it doesnt address an actual problem

15:27 MinceR; it's not meant to fix anything

15:27 MinceR; it's just something humans do

15:27 MinceR; A and B gang up to kill C, not realizing that once C is dead, they're going to try to kill each other

15:28 matey; youd have to give a b and c a better idea

15:28 matey; then if they dont get it straight, shoot them

15:28 MinceR; i don't think they have the mental capacity to do anything better

15:28 matey; its not about mental capacity

15:28 MinceR; they could try to stay out of my way, but i doubt they can even do that

15:28 MinceR; yes it is

15:28 matey; its about a failed education

15:28 matey; its really not

15:28 matey; this isnt an iq points thing

15:29 MinceR; no one said it was

15:29 matey; mental capacity / iq... we are going to quibble?

15:29 MinceR; yes we are

15:29 matey; ok, but whats the quibble then?

15:29 MinceR; iq is a very limited tool, not really useful beyond what it was invented to do

15:29 matey; agreed

15:30 matey; but i think youre measuring mental capacity in education

15:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

15:30 matey; and thats what iq tests do

15:30 matey; and the argument has the same flaw either way

15:30 matey; the issue is education, not "mental capacity"

15:30 matey; the fix is also education

15:31 matey; granted, education wont work on psychopaths

15:31 matey; and the jury is out on sociopaths

15:31 MinceR; i'm not measuring it in education

15:31 matey; thats the problem. you should.

15:32 MinceR; i'm "measuring" it in the ability to not ruin one's own future, in the ability to learn and understand, in the ability to coexist with others that are willing to do so

15:32 matey; actually im going back and forth because of semantics

15:32 matey; but i mean, education is the issue here

15:32 matey; and if two people with the same mental capacity get very different educations

15:32 MinceR; in little things like "should i really promote dictatorship so much when i can't be sure that i'll end up at the top of it all?"

15:32 matey; they get wildly different results

15:32 matey; <MinceR> in little things like "should i really promote dictatorship so much when i can't be sure that i'll end up at the top of it all?"

15:32 techuser; is compulsory education when children are forced to use evil tech *good*?

15:33 matey; ent results <- the disparity in education will produce as great a disparity in lesson learned

15:33 matey; if you teach people to be stupid, they will be stupid.

15:33 MinceR; also in little things like "i've tried this thing 90 times and every time it failed. should i try it again, or should i try something else?"

15:33 matey; its not the only way, but its the most popular

15:33 matey; <MinceR> also in little things like "i've tried this thing 90 times and every time it failed. should i try it again, or should i try something else?" <- of course

15:34 matey; /me thinks this one is obvious

15:34 matey; i mean if people "think" that way

15:34 matey; they were taught to

15:34 techuser; I tell cuddlybear66 that she'd better not to have children because a lot of parents did fail at being good parents. She thinks he will be a good one.

15:34 matey; i should say "conditioned" to

15:34 MinceR; well, some people figured out that what they're trying to teach them is bullshit

15:34 matey; yeah

15:34 MinceR; some people became cured of religion this way

15:34 matey; and if not for people like that, we would all be fucked

15:34 techuser; *she thinks she will be a good one

15:34 MinceR; or rather, cured themselves

15:35 matey; religions not so bad

15:35 MinceR; yeah, it's so much worse

15:35 matey; fundamentalism and theocracy are terrible

15:35 MinceR; and fundamentalism and theocracy follow from religion

15:35 matey; if you take out fundamentalism and theocracy, those are the "big teeth" of religion that get everybody

15:35 techuser; Islam terrorism exists

15:35 matey; <MinceR> and fundamentalism and theocracy follow from religion <- they dont

15:35 MinceR; destroying the ability to think rationally is a big tooth too

15:35 cuddlybear66; a lot of parents have failed but u can look at their mistakes nd learn from them, strive to be better than ur own parents so u can make ur kids happy

15:36 matey; give me one example of fundamentalism or theocracy

15:36 matey; and ill show you the error

15:36 MinceR; no amount of praying will prevent an asteroid or the Sun from wiping you out

15:36 matey; first, theocracy follows from state authoritarianism

15:36 matey; you cant have theocracy without an authoritarian state

15:36 matey; but you can have an authoritarian state without theocracy

15:36 MinceR; fundamentalism follows from absolute certainty in one's beliefs

15:36 matey; yeah

15:36 MinceR; theocracy follows from fundamentalism

15:37 matey; you can have all of this without religion. saying it comes from religion seems to fly in the face of facts

15:37 matey; all of this PAIRS with religion. but so what?

15:37 matey; if you mix crack with chocolate, you get chocolatey crack and it will kill you

15:38 matey; or just destroy your life

15:38 matey; and too much chocolate will kill you too

15:38 matey; but for most people, chocolate isnt their biggest concern in life

15:38 techuser; I should ask horseface what he thinks on it

15:39 matey; without pairing up with other more terrible ideas

15:39 matey; religion is just a hobby

15:39 MinceR; religion is a memetic parasite that destroys the mind

15:39 techuser; for some people it is the meaning of life

15:40 techuser; is it a hobby when someone kills themselves because the religion told them to?

15:40 MinceR; the best hobby

15:40 matey; <MinceR> religion is a memetic parasite that destroys the mind <- if you look into how it does that, im sure youll find the real problem lays elsewhere

15:40 techuser; and not only themselves, but also a lot of other people

15:40 MinceR; one of the real problems is that most human minds are defenseless against such memetic pathogens

15:40 MinceR; that doesn't absolve religion

15:40 matey; anything can become what you call a religion

15:40 matey; trumpism is basically there now

15:41 matey; which god do we blame trumpism on

15:41 MinceR; trumpism is an aspect of ruscism

15:41 MinceR; ruscism is christian fundamentalist

15:41 MinceR; we blame it on yahweh

15:41 techuser; some people on digdeeper's chat did mention skywavism (ping Skywave) iirc, as well as other invented religions related to the members of the chat

15:41 matey; what if yhwh has fuck all to do with this

15:41 MinceR; though maybe erdogan is a muslim ruscist, i'm not sure

15:41 MinceR; but muslims worship yahweh all the same

15:42 matey; i mean i can start chopping off heads and blame john lennon for it

15:42 matey; john lennon makes people kill each other man

15:42 techuser; oh, Church of Emacs btw

15:42 matey; im pretty sure church of emacs is harmless

15:43 matey; because it isnt really fundamentalist or theocratic

15:43 techuser; some people think "freetardism" is harmful

15:43 matey; but someday it might suddenly spawn fundamentalism or theocracy-- like roaches from newspapers

15:43 matey; a similar post hoc fallacy

15:44 matey; its funny because

15:44 MinceR; 29 164227 < matey> i mean i can start chopping off heads and blame john lennon for it

15:44 MinceR; so where's the scripture/dogma about john lennon?

15:44 matey; fundamentalism is VERY CLEARLY a separate factor that makes these things horrible

15:44 MinceR; also, when did john lennon become a god

15:45 matey; but religious critics honestly think that all religion has this magic spark that could just set off fundamentalism spontaneously at any horrible momeny

15:45 MinceR; fundamentalism very clearly follows from religion

15:45 techuser; celebrities have fans

15:45 matey; without any explanation of the mechanism

15:45 matey; otoh

15:45 MinceR; afaict no human did even reach divine rank 0 (quasi-deity) from fans

15:45 matey; if you treat fundamentalism as a separate factor that doesnt spontaneously spring magically from religious thinking

15:45 MinceR; iirc that would already make them immortal :>

15:45 matey; its relatively easy to explain where it comes from

15:45 matey; first, it comes from desperation.

15:46 matey; we can trace the causes of that desperation

15:46 techuser; otoh?

15:46 MinceR; the mechanism is taking one's religion more and more seriously, being more and more sure about everything in it

15:46 matey; otoh = on the other hand

15:46 MinceR; from which follows that everyone else is wrong, heretical, therefore expendable

15:46 matey; the mechanism is taking one's religion more and more ser

15:46 MinceR; and also that everything in life must be organized according to that religion

15:47 matey; if people are not denied education

15:47 matey; they arent that stupid

15:47 matey; i wasnt denied an education

15:47 matey; i was VERY sceptical of religious bullshit at age 4

15:47 MinceR; it typically have such elements as "nonbelievers must be forcefully converted so that they don't get tortured in hell forever, it's for their own good"

15:48 MinceR; s/ve/s/

15:48 matey; granted i was denied good math and social studies, like most people

15:48 matey; im 100% sceptical of theocracy (im 100% against it)

15:48 matey; and fundamentalism (it destroys lives)

15:49 matey; (even when it doesnt literally kill people_)

15:49 matey; both are forms of authoritarianism that borrow religion as justification

15:49 matey; hitler didnt spring forth from zoroastrianism

15:49 matey; he just looked around for an interesting excuse for being hitler

15:50 matey; and liked swastikas

15:50 matey; that should make it clearer where this shit comes from

15:50 matey; religion isnt the cause, its the excuse

15:50 matey; it gets taken over by authoritarian dicks

15:51 matey; but the authoritarianism is the issue

15:51 matey; "im your leader." "says who?" "god of course"

15:51 matey; over and over and again. egypt. england. japan.

15:52 matey; "go put some milk out"

15:52 matey; "why?"

15:52 matey; "fae folk"

15:52 matey; "k, whatever"

15:52 MinceR; the idea of other people being wrong and therefore lacking in rights comes in well before the authoritarian dicks take over

15:52 matey; harmless

15:52 matey; people are wrong all the fucking time

15:52 MinceR; doesn't mean they should be tortured for it

15:52 matey; youre really implying that everyone has to be a scientist not to kill each other over fairies

15:52 matey; it isnt so

15:53 matey; all they have to do is not kill each other without a good reason

15:53 MinceR; especially when the basis of this is a memetically spreading set of misconceptions about reality

15:53 MinceR; no, i'm implying that people need to accept that other people can be right too, and other people can have rights too

15:53 MinceR; even if they don't have the same (or any) religion

15:54 matey; i agree

15:54 matey; but if they cant agree to that much

15:54 matey; thats fundamentalism

15:54 matey; and religion really doesnt produce fundamentalists very reliably

15:54 MinceR; and that's what you'll find in many scriptures

15:54 MinceR; pretty early on

15:54 matey; most christians and muslims arent out to join a crusade

15:54 MinceR; though i guess abrahamism really outdoes everything else at this

15:54 matey; abrahamism is broadly plagiarised anyway

15:55 matey; (in both directions)

15:55 MinceR; no, they're merely out to support sociopaths who treat everyone outside their cult as designated victims

15:55 MinceR; and also out to provide the active religious extremists with cover and excuses

15:55 matey; we agree that sociopaths are a major problem in all of this

15:55 matey; one of the biggest problems

15:56 MinceR; many christians admitted already that their voting is influenced by which party spouts their preferred flavor of religious bullshit

15:57 matey; christianity has been co-opted by statists since the time romans killed (or allegedly killed) jesus (assuming he even existed)

15:57 matey; its tied together with the state in so many ways now

15:57 matey; but all that goes back to it being co-opted by an existing state

15:57 matey; its rome that made christianity suck, not the other way around

15:57 matey; and statists still do that

15:57 matey; its a big thing

15:58 matey; but for some reason we act like that magically SPRANG FORTH from christianity itself

15:59 matey; the goal here is to understand religion and how it works-- both the good (if any) and the bad

15:59 MinceR; christianity has had support for statism in its scriptures for a very long time

15:59 matey; not to absolve it or to blame it for things that are clearly outside factors

15:59 MinceR; also for slavery

15:59 MinceR; and so has judaism

4 PM, July 29

16:00 MinceR; also, afaik rome was better before christianity became its state religion

16:00 MinceR; they were much more tolerant of other religions at least

16:01 matey; monotheism and fundamentalism do attract each other

16:01 MinceR; polytheism is inherently more tolerant than monotheism

16:01 matey; monotheism CAN be tolerant

16:01 matey; but it starts to look like polytheism then

16:02 matey; monotheism and polythism are largely an argument about how to count things

16:02 matey; catholicism has 3 deities but only one really counts and besides theyre the same

16:02 matey; so there

16:03 matey; paganism can do that too, but we dont let them, so there

16:03 matey; it counts when i do it, not when you do it

16:03 matey; its the same, but theres a nuance

16:03 matey; all polytheism can be monotheistic through the silly tricks monotheism pulls

16:03 matey; and its fine

16:04 matey; its just that some monotheists get this

16:04 matey; and most will never admit it :)

16:04 matey; so monotheism often acts as a sort of "my shit doesnt stink" thing

16:04 matey; and joseph campbell understandably had this attitude towards it

16:05 matey; imo the people who really understand monotheism arent like that, so it doesnt bother me

16:05 matey; but i still see the people who think theyre special for it

16:05 matey; really i think if you get rid of religion

16:05 matey; first, you can only do it by incredibly oppressive means

16:06 matey; then after you do that, people are just going to invent it again

16:06 matey; so what was that for

16:06 matey; newton became a rather lovely scientist without giving up crazy

16:06 matey; the enlightenment came out either way

16:07 matey; as for marx and lenin, both were of the opinion that if you addressed the real problems in the world

16:07 matey; religion would sort of fade away

16:07 matey; and become a non-issue

16:07 matey; ive always thought similar, but not because of marx or lenin

16:07 matey; they just happened to agree

16:07 matey; its a symptom

16:08 matey; it looks like a very violent cause

16:08 matey; its a very violent symptom imo

16:08 matey; but only when combined with other factors

16:08 matey; religious idiots vote for religious idiots, yes

16:09 matey; but only in an election system which is fundametally broken

16:09 matey; and religion didnt break it

16:09 matey; it just moved into the cracks

16:09 matey; if you banned religion and only left atheists standing, the election system wouldnt be fixed

16:09 matey; if you fixed it however, it would actually represent people

16:10 matey; not the lunatic fringe

16:10 phanes; no it would just think it was smarter than anyone

16:10 matey; what would think so?

16:10 phanes; atheism is the lowest order of spiritual thought

16:10 MinceR; 29 170544 < matey> really i think if you get rid of religion

16:10 MinceR; i would hope it could become obsolete

16:10 MinceR; and unattractive to people

16:10 matey; of course it can

16:10 MinceR; but taking power away from fundamentalists would help a lot

16:10 matey; 99% of relgion is a cheap trick

16:10 matey; and the rest is harmless

16:11 matey; <MinceR> but taking power away from fundamentalists would help a lot <- if everyone was armed, that would help

16:11 techuser; people are afraid of death, religion kind of addresses the issue, isn't it?

16:11 phanes; it presents itself as an evolution of human thinking while accumulating all of the faith-based backing it rejects in contrary perspectives

16:11 matey; relgion hooks into every fear, death among those

16:11 MinceR; 29 170717 < matey> as for marx and lenin, both were of the opinion that if you addressed the real problems in the world

16:11 MinceR; and so they started another religion

16:11 MinceR; based on misconceptions about economics

16:11 matey; fear of loneliness, fear of failure, fear of death, fear of being useless

16:11 MinceR; and then later added misconceptions about biology

16:11 matey; fear of TEMPTATION

16:12 matey; based on misconceptions about economics <- i think the playing field is pretty level when it comes to misconceptions about economics

16:12 matey; everybody has them more or less

16:12 matey; the distribution is close enough to perfect

16:12 MinceR; also, banning religion is impossible unless you can read people's thoughts

16:13 MinceR; and that would be even worse

16:13 matey; yes

16:13 MinceR; thought police

16:13 matey; which is why i always argue for religion

16:13 matey; ill take it over the thought police, just like youll take turing completeness over memory safety :)

16:13 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

16:13 MinceR; 29 171245 < matey> based on misconceptions about economics <- i think the playing field is pretty level when it comes to misconceptions about economics

16:13 phanes; freedom of religion is also freedom from religion*

16:13 matey; indeed

16:14 phanes; in other words, an atheist should be allowed to exist

16:14 MinceR; most people understand that discounts do not retroactively reduce the amount of work necessary to produce a good

16:14 matey; of course

16:14 phanes; but they should also be willing to be identified as the dumbest thinker in the room of a theologians

16:14 MinceR; marx and ricardo did not

16:14 phanes; *in a room of theologians

16:14 MinceR; lol @ phanes

16:14 matey; ricardo?

16:15 matey; he has some splaining to do

16:15 matey; who is ricardo

16:15 MinceR; someone blamed with coming up with the labor theory of value

16:16 matey; when i think about the labour theory of value

16:16 matey; i cant get past "workers deserve as much pay for their work as their bosses get"

16:17 matey; if its more than that, i dont get it

16:17 matey; if its that, ok

16:17 MinceR; it has nothing to do with that

16:17 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

16:17 matey; and im sure theres a "because" and thats fine too

16:17 matey; but eh

16:17 matey; it has nothing to do with that <- but that seems to be all it is

16:17 MinceR; LTV states that the value of goods is determined by the labor that went into producing them and nothing else

16:17 matey; and whatever else it is, i cant discern

16:18 MinceR; marx's capital is basically just restating the LTV over and over and over until you get tired of reading it and look for something else to do

16:18 matey; LTV states that the value of goods is determined by the labor that went into producing them and nothing else <- im sure the cost of materials is factored in

16:18 MinceR; with a bit of other stupidity mixed in

16:18 matey; marx's capital is basically just restating the LTV over and over and over until you get tired of reading it and look for something else to do <- it certainly kept lenin busy though

16:18 MinceR; allegedly materials are either just there (and thus free) or are extracted with labor

16:19 MinceR; lenin wanted power, it was good for that

16:19 matey; i think ive heard that

16:19 matey; lenin wanted power, it was good for that <- what did he use the power for

16:19 MinceR; sociopath things

16:19 MinceR; holding on to power, gaining more power, running other people's lives

16:20 MinceR; getting rid of people he didn't like

16:20 matey; too bad that didnt include stalin

16:20 MinceR; indeed

16:20 matey; to be fair, he was a bit incapacitated

16:20 matey; but its unfortunate nonetheless

16:21 matey; making anticapitalism work is necessary for humanity to move onto another stage of potential

16:21 matey; the nicest thing you can say for capitalism is it has reached its last plataeu

16:22 phanes; anyone who's ever started a business knows the owner of the means of production works way harder with way higher risk than anyone they're ever going to hire in about 99% of all cases

16:22 MinceR; what is anticapitalism, how does it work

16:22 matey; anticapitalism is an umbrella term, like computer

16:23 phanes; you screw up at a job working for someone else, you might lose that job at the worse; you screw up a company you own, everybody loses their jobs and you might ruin your life in the process

16:23 matey; and like computers, anticapitalism comes in a variety of forms and architectures

16:23 *techuser (~techuser@qbeewnuez7vaq.irc) has joined #techrights

16:24 MinceR; most people who have ever started a business probably don't know how sociopaths who were born into incredible wealth and power run the businesses they own

16:24 matey; +

16:24 MinceR; you screw up one of the companies you were born to own, you probably don't care much

16:24 matey; more than that

16:24 MinceR; and most of those people think nothing of the people who work for them

16:24 matey; most people who start a business in a context already controlled by those who could buy and sell microsoft or ibm 1000 times

16:25 MinceR; think of someone like bill gates or steve jobs

16:25 matey; do so in ^

16:25 matey; not even bill gates or steve jobs

16:25 matey; someone who can OWN bill gates or steve jobs

16:25 MinceR; or former president Don Corrupcione

16:25 matey; lets say microsoft or ibm REALLY decided to stand up for people

16:25 matey; instead of money

16:26 matey; theyd be fucked.

16:26 matey; thats how broken the system is

16:26 matey; steve ballmer and bill gates, two of the richest people on earth

16:26 matey; couldnt fix it

16:26 matey; nor would they try, but even if they did

16:26 MinceR; not to mention someone who owns businesses only on paper but doesn't run them, like lorinc meszaros (orban's best known stooge)

16:27 matey; so you can run a business with the best intentions and the hardest work

16:27 MinceR; 29 172256 < matey> anticapitalism is an umbrella term, like computer

16:27 matey; but your company is ultimately going to fuck people

16:27 matey; because thats what companies do

16:27 MinceR; no, anticapitalism is yet another of those terms that are so vague they might as well be meaningless

16:27 matey; of course, in some way we can measure, it might help

16:27 matey; but in the big picture, its all fucked

16:27 MinceR; connected to using "capitalism" to mean everything "bad" but never defining it and never offering a solution

16:28 MinceR; 29 172736 < matey> because thats what companies do

16:28 matey; no, anticapitalism is yet another of those terms that are so vague they might as well be meaningless <- its as non-vague as "atheist" for fucks sake

16:28 MinceR; is it what co-ops do?

16:28 MinceR; is it what foundations do?

16:28 matey; define atheist.

16:28 MinceR; yeah, the above uses of "atheist" also didn't add anything to the conversation

16:29 MinceR; atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods

16:29 matey; and an anticapitalist is someone who doesnt believe capitalism is good or should be relied on

16:29 matey; thats pretty straightforward

16:29 matey; so anticapitalism is the search for some better alternative to capitalism

16:29 matey; whats the problem with that?

16:29 MinceR; iirc weak atheism == absence of belief in any gods; strong atheism == belief that no gods exist

16:29 MinceR; ("god" isn't really defined though...)

16:30 matey; religion defines god, atheist is a response to that

16:30 matey; really atheism only needs to define theism-- not god

16:30 matey; obviously

16:30 *psydruid is looking forward to a discussion about fundamentalist atheists and atheist fundamentalists

16:30 MinceR; different religions define it differently

16:30 XRevan86; An atheist is someone who's worldview does not involve gods.

16:30 XRevan86; * whose

16:30 MinceR; and no, atheism is not a response to religions

16:30 MinceR; it's the default state

16:31 matey; <MinceR> different religions define it differently <- what do you have against blanket terms with obvious and easy to understand meanings

16:31 MinceR; nothing, i'd like to see obvious and easy to understand meanings

16:31 matey; its easy if you try

16:31 MinceR; for example, the abrahamic definition of "god" is that it's yahweh, and there can be no others

16:32 matey; then atheism rejects that

16:32 matey; along with the rest of them

16:32 MinceR; every non-abrahamic religion rejects that

16:32 matey; also true

16:32 XRevan86; Is being a GNU/Linux user a response to Windows?

16:32 matey; actually, almost

16:32 MinceR; could be, but not necessarily

16:32 XRevan86; Are we all defined by Windows?

16:32 matey; <XRevan86> Is being a GNU/Linux user a response to Windows? <- no its a response to a missing printer driver

16:32 MinceR; lol

16:33 matey; though stallman disputes that

16:33 matey; presumably because really he just didnt want to leave the ai lab.

16:33 phanes; MinceR, you're defining atheism as agnosticism

16:33 matey; or to be the last one there

16:33 XRevan86; matey: I don't have a printer, so I wouldn't know.

16:33 matey; i used to

16:33 matey; but it went missing before the driver did

16:33 MinceR; phanes: well, weak atheism and weak agnosticism are somewhat similar

16:33 matey; so we need free hardware

16:33 XRevan86; I do have a scanner that doesn't work on Windows, so there's that.

16:34 MinceR; weak agnosticism == no position on whether gods exist; strong agnosticism == belief that the existence of gods cannot be known

16:34 matey; strong agnosticism == belief that the existence of gods cannot be known <- me

16:35 matey; strong agnostics: you can experience the infinite but you cant GRASP it unless youre infinite

16:35 matey; so the idea of being sure of a god is silly

16:35 matey; it could be a god or just a really big jerk

16:36 matey; i think this is a reasonable perspective scientifically

16:36 XRevan86; I kind of stopped caring about the term "agnostic", as it's similiar to claiming that it cannot be known whether Klingons exist.

16:36 matey; but i dont think faith is stupid. it depends on what it does.

16:36 MinceR; :>

16:36 MinceR; i stopped caring about agnosticism and atheism, i prefer nonreligion

16:36 matey; nonreligion sounds pretty agnostic to me but ok

16:36 MinceR; :>

16:37 matey; <XRevan86> I kind of stopped caring about the term "agnostic", as it's similiar to claiming that it cannot be known whether Klingons exist. <- its just a phase

16:38 matey; assuming youre smarter than billions of people over a petty disagreement on something that allegedly doesnt even matter to you

16:38 MinceR; it's easy to be smarter than billions of people, unfortunately

16:38 XRevan86; matey: I'm just highly non-superstitious.

16:38 matey; fair point

16:38 XRevan86; I call it "atheist", call it what ye like.

16:38 matey; <XRevan86> matey: I'm just highly non-superstitious. <- ill accept this as a possibility

16:38 matey; atheist is a perfectly reasonable term for that. i would assume its accurate as well

16:38 *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)

16:39 XRevan86; When I try to understand something about the world, god is never in the equation.

16:40 *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #techrights

16:40 XRevan86; The moment when I grossly misunderstood something because I forgot to account for god, hasn't happened yet.

16:40 matey; it might cause you to misunderstand theists a bit

16:41 XRevan86; matey: That's not "god", that's "theology".

16:41 MinceR; https://files.explosm.net/comics/Dave/wedgieboard.png ( https://explosm.net/comics/dave-wedgieboard#comic )

16:41 TR Bot; & Happiness (Explosm.net)

16:41 matey; well i made that point before, so fair enough

16:43 XRevan86; Or maybe "psychology", but that is a very different topic from looking at the objective world around us.

16:43 matey; psychology and evolution are two things that took a great deal of early inspiration from religion

16:44 MinceR; good thing they shook it off, then

16:44 matey; freud (jung moreso) took more than a few pages from belief systems

16:44 phanes; MinceR, they're not somewhat similar, the word atheist means something, and the word agnostic means something, and those two words have different meanings

16:44 matey; and darwin (that darwin) was trying to better understand gods creation

16:45 matey; in the venn diagram weak atheist and agnosticism do have a great deal of overlap

16:45 matey; strong atheism isnt agnosticism

16:45 matey; and no one talks about strong agnosticism, but he didnt make it up

16:46 matey; i would have defined it roughly the same and mincer and i have never spoken about this before

16:46 matey; still, he rejected the word atheist when i compared it to anticapitalist

16:47 phanes; no i mean the concept of "weak atheism" is fictitious

16:47 matey; and then proceeded to define atheist just fine, so im not sure what that means

16:47 XRevan86; MinceR: Non-religion is something that also includes people who "feel" there's a higher being out there, but aren't indoctrinated into anything.

16:47 phanes; its agnostics who don't know the word "agnostic"

16:47 matey; no i mean the concept of "weak atheism" is fictitious <- if by fictitious you mean in the dictionary and accurately describing a swath of actual people, sure

16:47 MinceR; lol

16:48 phanes; in fact the whole segmentation is purely driven by atheist communities' desire to obscure the shallowness and lack of thought of their entire premise

16:48 matey; well i do think most atheism is shallow. same for most relgion

16:49 matey; but shallowness isnt a requirement for either

16:49 matey; its more of a convention

16:49 phanes; "well maybe nobody will notice we're not thinking if we divide up into a bunch of labels already accounted for in existing terminology and pretend weve tread ground"

16:49 matey; i think sagan was a deep atheist

16:49 XRevan86; Atheism is not really what can connect people together.

16:49 matey; phanes, read "is there an artificial god" in salmon of doubt and youll have a pretty good idea what i think about all this

16:50 matey; except that i think its the best thing a strong atheist has written on the subject

16:50 matey; and im not an atheist

16:50 matey; but dna certainly was

16:50 phanes; adams wasn't a strong atheist

16:50 phanes; he was an atheist

16:50 matey; he believed there was no god

16:50 phanes; that's an atheist

16:50 matey; how has strong/weak atheism eluded you as a concept?

16:51 MinceR; i didn't realize "thinking" meant "uncritically accepting what was handed down to me"

16:51 phanes; matey, because it's fictious

16:51 matey; okay, what makes it a fiction?

16:51 matey; in what way is it fictional;

16:51 MinceR; apparently people who disagree with phanes are fictional

16:51 phanes; no the people are real, they're just not very smart

16:52 XRevan86; MinceR: "Thinking" means "classification of minutiae until complete ridiculousness".

16:52 matey; douglasadams.eu/douglas-adams-and-god-portrait-of-a-radical-atheist/

16:52 matey; Douglas had not been an atheist all his life. When he was young, he was extremely religious. Let's remember that when he was born, his father was studying for a postgraduate degree in theology, and had a view to taking orders. Douglas was brought up in the Christian tradition.

16:52 matey; ^ didnt know that until today

16:52 matey; <phanes> no the people are real, they're just not very smart <- no one can make you qualify that, it would still be nice

16:52 MinceR; XRevan86: most things are ridiculous, especially the ones involving humans, so don't be surprised if that's what you find at the bottom

16:53 matey; adams was a self described "radical atheist"

16:54 matey; "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

16:54 XRevan86; Maybe there are such things as weak anti-slaverists and strong anti-slaverists.

16:54 matey; there were actually.

16:54 XRevan86; And slavery agnostics who haven't thought about slavery because it hasn't been on the agenda for them ever.

16:54 MinceR; if you define it, it will exist

16:55 matey; most abolitionists simply wanted to reform until slavery wasnt a big deal or it went out of style

16:55 MinceR; that's how terminology works

16:55 matey; i mean youre basically joking that politics can be radical or not

16:55 matey; which is of course true

16:56 matey; john brown was a radical abolitionist

16:56 matey; and through his actions, and the slaveowners reaction to the same, the latter radicalised the "weak" (reformist) abolitionists

16:57 matey; and it split a country and led to one of the (at the time) largest wars in history

16:57 matey; so yeah, there were weak anti-slaverists and strong ones

16:57 matey; by any reasonable measure

16:58 XRevan86; matey: Isn't that more of a "course of action" kind of deal rather than the general opinion, as is what's always measured around religion?

16:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

5 PM, July 29

17:00 XRevan86; My line of thinking was a bit faulty, but that was because I looked at it from the lense of superstitious beliefs.

17:00 matey; matey: Isn't that more of a "course of action" kind of deal rather than the general opinion, as is what's always measured around religion? <- sure

17:00 matey; but imo the only advantage to distinguishing between weak and strong atheism

17:01 XRevan86; So pretty much passive things rather than real abolition action.

17:01 matey; is to better understand that its not th same for everyone

17:01 matey; So pretty much passive things rather than real abolition action. <- yes but imo that distinction is beside the point that similar distinctions exist among both terms

17:02 XRevan86; matey: I think that that is more of an expression thing rather than the inner state of mind.

17:02 matey; and the idea was to dismiss that distinction as silly

17:02 matey; but if if inadvertently demonstrated it further as non-silly, my point is valid

17:02 matey; again, imo. but i did explain it.

17:02 XRevan86; Different people express their idea of why they're different from the religious folk differently.

17:02 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

17:03 matey; youve watered it down a little, but sure

17:04 MinceR; sometimes their idea really is different :>

17:04 matey; imo yes

17:04 XRevan86; An atheist inherently doesn't take the whole concept of "god" seriously.

17:04 MinceR; i've even read folk claiming they're "spiritual but not religious"

17:04 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

17:04 matey; what they mean is they like some of the ideas but not enough to convince anyone they fit a rigid system

17:05 matey; sort of religions version of non-binary (but non-integer would probably fit betteR)

17:05 XRevan86; Trying to put on a spectre of how real their believe god to be is the line of thinking of a theist.

17:05 matey; i dont get that part, atheists do that too

17:06 matey; also i dont think its a spectre, its a simple quantification

17:06 matey; its a category or literally a subcategory

17:06 XRevan86; It's just not a natural way of thinking for an atheists, so they give weird answers when they're forced to look at their worldview from that perspective.

17:06 matey; this is a weird line of thinking

17:07 matey; occam lends himself really easily to this

17:07 XRevan86; matey: Consider how people would answer "how real are the elves".

17:07 matey; thats not an accurate summary

17:07 XRevan86; The variety will surprise you

17:07 XRevan86; Even though no one takes elves seriously.

17:07 matey; i would say that people who prefer darker colours include people who prefer green, people who prefer blue and people who prefer violet

17:08 matey; and that this is not a nonsensical statement, but a perfectly reasonable one

17:08 MinceR; "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes."

17:08 matey; atheists include people who believe there is no god and people who have no belief

17:08 XRevan86; Elves exist for no one, and yet we'll find weak aelfists and strong aelfists.

17:09 matey; i thought this was a settled matter in the dictionary and general understanding

17:09 matey; but i guess anything can be disputed

17:09 XRevan86; matey: What do ye believe regarding elves? They don't exist, no belief or other?

17:10 XRevan86; Then repeat for gnomes, goblins and The Doctor (Who).

17:11 TR News; #HowTo Install and Use Homebrew Package Manager on Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167790

17:11 TR Bot; How to Install and Use Homebrew Package Manager on Linux | Tux Machines

17:11 matey; this is condescension posing as a reasonable point

17:11 TR News; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Apple Dictionary Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167791

17:11 TR Bot; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Apple Dictionary | Tux Machines

17:11 matey; but i think youre going out of your way to miss something factual, and im not playing

17:12 matey; though it could be fun, its a waste of my time to satisfy your ego

17:12 matey; and what other purpose it could serve, i cant imagine

17:12 matey; im the one defending openmindedness here

17:13 matey; youre the one turning that on its head in an effort to defeat the same in a battle of rhetoric

17:13 matey; i cant say im impressed

17:13 matey; but either way its smug

17:14 matey; youve literally turned your nose up at the dictionary to try to be better than me

17:14 matey; i cant help you there

17:14 matey; once we cant agreee on the dictionary, we just cant agree

17:14 XRevan86; The point is that all those things are not believed to be real by the people who don't believe in them.

17:14 XRevan86; But answers will invariably differ.

17:14 matey; whatever the point was, its gone now

17:15 XRevan86; And people can be classified on that however useless that is.

17:15 matey; i mean why bother classifying things that are similar at all

17:15 XRevan86; It's all about *what* is being classified.

17:16 matey; better to make false assumptions

17:16 matey; i mean my argument was it would create a better understanding

17:16 matey; because it does that

17:16 matey; but you think thats silly

17:16 matey; so okay

17:18 XRevan86; My view is that people can be classified on how accepting they are of mystical explanations.

17:18 matey; coulda fooled me

17:18 TR News; "Airbus unmanned glider has been flying for 42 days without landing" https://digit.site36.net/2022/07/28/airbus-zephyr-stratospheric-drone-beats-own-record/ | Source: Site36

17:18 TR Bot; Airbus Zephyr: Stratospheric drone beats own record Security Architectures in the EU

17:18 MinceR; "not believed to be real" can be interpreted in multiple ways

17:19 XRevan86; Not on how sure they are god definitely is not out there somewhere or not.

17:19 MinceR; including "doesn't have an effect on my life", "i don't care", "i'm absolutely sure it doesn't exist", ...

17:19 TR News; SpellBinding: AYNRSWC Wordo: SCRIP gemini://tilde.cafe/~spellbinding/gemlog/2022-07-29.gmi

17:19 matey; again, your strawman makes this whole thing pointless to discuss

17:19 matey; its not an honest argument

17:19 MinceR; well, yahweh is defined in such a way that it can't exist

17:19 MinceR; other gods can be defined more sanely

17:19 matey; its a smug waste of someones time

17:19 MinceR; and of course fiction isn't required to be sane anyway

17:19 matey; and youre generally better than that, so i wont assume anything broader

17:19 matey; but it really is a waste

17:20 TR News; Devin Nunes https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/28/devin-nunes-drops-slapp-case-he-lost-against-guy-he-claims-is-the-husband-of-the-satirical-tweeting-cow-who-mocks-him/ | Source: Techdirt

17:20 TR Bot; Nunes Drops SLAPP Case He Lost Against Guy He Claims Is The Husband Of The Satirical Tweeting Cow Who Mocks Him | Techdirt

17:21 XRevan86; matey: Can't not be smug when I see the world in a way where my line of thinking is right. Otherwise I'd have a different line of thinking if I saw it as better.

17:21 TR News; What's up with this recession? (Unemployment) gemini://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~stack/gemlog/2022-07-29.economy.gmi "In the US, the numbers come from those claiming unemployment benefits from the government. After a while, many give up and are no longer counted"

17:21 matey; thats not the problem

17:21 matey; you are writing your own argument and rewriting my response to it

17:22 matey; if its like that i can let you do this without my wasted effort

17:22 matey; youre speaking for both of us, have fun

17:22 TR News; "COVID lockdowns gave me the urge to play remotely, but I was so busy at home I didn't ever get around to it, though I did buy some TTRPG products, in digital media form." gemini://carcosa.net/journal/20220729-ttrpg-pdf-tablet.gmi

17:22 matey; i cited the dictionary i got that thrown back at me

17:22 matey; thats smug

17:23 matey; i a fool for taking the dictionary into account

17:23 matey; really, okay

17:23 matey; your argument rests on unfairly rewording what i said

17:23 TR News; "SeeedStudio has unveiled the reComputer J101 and J202 which are compatible with the 260-pin SODIMM modules" https://linuxgizmos.com/seeedstudio-launches-carrier-boards-for-jetson-nano-xavier-nx-tx2-nx/ | Source: Linux Gizmos

17:23 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/seeedstudio-launches-carrier-boards-for-jetson-nano-xavier-nx-tx2-nx/ )

17:23 TR News; "One we apparently missed that arrived with Native Linux support back in May" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/voodoo-detective-is-a-monkey-island-inspired-point-and-click-adventure/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:23 TR Bot; Detective is a Monkey Island inspired point-and-click adventure | GamingOnLinux

17:23 matey; this is beneath you

17:24 TR News; Native GNU/Linux support https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/detective-adventure-lord-winklebottom-investigates-is-out-now/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:24 TR Bot; adventure Lord Winklebottom Investigates is out now | GamingOnLinux

17:24 matey; at least its beneath my general impression of you

17:24 MinceR; (cat) https://rimgo.bcow.xyz/gallery/Ge41Ctu

17:24 TR Bot; Ringo a year later. - rimgo

17:25 matey; if i were to make it personal, id say that this probably means more to you than you let on

17:25 matey; since for most things, you dont stoop to this

17:25 matey; but hell, thats a sloppy guess

17:25 TR News; "Recently I showed off Halo Infinite running quite nicely online on the Steam Deck" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/ge-proton-7-27-halo-infinite-campaign-and-videos-steam-deck-linux/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:25 TR Bot; 7-27 has the Halo Infinite campaign and videos working on Steam Deck & Linux | GamingOnLinux

17:25 XRevan86; matey: Ye gave no indication these are not your words.

17:26 matey; oh, blow me.

17:26 *matey has quit (connection closed)

17:26 *matey (~matey@ket9pi5gbeqcg.irc) has joined #techrights

17:27 matey; todays forecast: cloudy with a chance of urine

17:27 XRevan86; Dictionaries are not meant to give an in-depth view into a human's psyche. The definition is concise and unambiguous enough.

17:28 TR News; "Bottles is the free and open source app that allows you to easily manage Wine" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/wine-manager-app-bottles-makes-rolling-back-configs-real-easy/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:28 TR Bot; manager app Bottles makes rolling back configs real easy | GamingOnLinux

17:30 MinceR; Jimmy Urine?

17:30 TR News; SolidRun introduces SolidWAN software-defined edge network hardware with NXP LX 16-core Cortex-A72 SoCs Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167792

17:30 TR Bot; SolidRun introduces SolidWAN software-defined edge network hardware with NXP LX 16-core Cortex-A72 SoCs | Tux Machines

17:31 TR News; "As reported by Vice and followed up on by Wired, posts about abortion receive intense scrutiny online." https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/abortion-information-coming-down-across-social-media-what-happening-and-what-next | Source: EFF

17:31 TR Bot; Abortion Information Is Coming Down Across Social Media. What Is Happening and What Next. | Electronic Frontier Foundation

17:31 matey; aka jimmy riddle

17:31 TR News; "Lets dive straight into the most prominent news across the IoT landscape from the last two months." https://ubuntu.com//blog/state-of-iot-june-2022 | Source: Ubuntu

17:31 TR Bot; State of IoT June & July 2022 | Ubuntu

17:32 matey; you must remember this, a piss is just a piss, a sigh is just a sigh

17:32 TR News; "In my previousarticle about rustup, I showed you how to install the Rust toolchain." https://opensource.com/article/22/7/learn-rust-rustlings | Source: OpenSource.com

17:32 TR Bot; Rust by debugging Rust | Opensource.com

17:32 TR News; "Shell scripts can span multiple files, and well-written code is further broken down into functions." https://opensource.com/article/22/7/print-stack-trace-bash-scripts | Source: OpenSource.com

17:32 TR Bot; bugs in Bash scripts by printing a stack trace | Opensource.com

17:33 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

17:33 TR News; "special version of Proton" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/proton-experimental-brings-support-for-unravel-two-fixes-up-civilization-iv/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:33 TR Bot; Experimental brings support for Unravel Two, fixes up Civilization IV | GamingOnLinux

17:34 TR News; The Top 10 Most Popular AppImage Apps for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167793

17:34 TR Bot; The Top 10 Most Popular AppImage Apps for Linux | Tux Machines

17:34 TR News; "Yes this is a real thing, DOOM modders will quite literally do anything and I'm here loving it." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/you-can-now-play-doom-as-the-cat-from-stray/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:34 TR Bot; can now play DOOM as the Cat from Stray | GamingOnLinux

17:34 TR News; "Just King is going to be my next game to be fixated on." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/just-king-blends-vampire-survivors-action-with-slay-the-spire-progression/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:34 TR Bot; King blends Vampire Survivors action with Slay the Spire progression | GamingOnLinux

17:36 TR News; "Developers will then get all of the proceeds from each sale (minus any required fees and taxes)." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/itchio-has-another-creator-day-live-with-100-going-to-developers/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:36 TR Bot; has another Creator Day live with 100% going to developers | GamingOnLinux

17:37 TR News; "Looking for your next RPG-shooter hybrid with online co-op?" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/outriders-officially-gets-a-playable-steam-deck-rating/ | Source: GamingOnLinux

17:37 TR Bot; officially gets a Playable Steam Deck rating | GamingOnLinux

17:38 TR News; On privacy https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/federal-preemption-state-privacy-law-hurts-everyone | Source: EFF

17:38 TR Bot; Federal Preemption of State Privacy Law Hurts Everyone | Electronic Frontier Foundation

17:40 TR News; Ask EFF if people who oppose abortion also have digital rights. Because EFF stepping into politics mostly splits the support base, makes it less effective at achieving its original goals.

17:40 TR News; Whats New in Linux Mint 21 Vanessa Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167794

17:40 TR Bot; Whats New in Linux Mint 21 Vanessa | Tux Machines

17:41 TR News; American Innovation and Choice Online Act (AICOA) https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/28/chuck-schumer-admits-whats-been-obvious-for-a-while-there-just-arent-enough-votes-to-pass-sketchy-antitrust-bill-targeting-tech-companies/ | Source: Techdirt

17:41 TR Bot; Schumer Admits Whats Been Obvious For A While: There Just Arent Enough Votes To Pass Sketchy Antitrust Bill Targeting Tech Companies | Techdirt

17:42 TR News; This is about inclusion in a software patents racket; they are not "anti-troll group", they include trolls like Microsoft, so AOL now issues paid-for fluff for bad people https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/28/lot-the-big-tech-anti-patent-troll-group-launches-adapt-to-tackle-inclusion-in-the-world-of-ip/ http://techrights.org/2020/03/27/the-lot-network-paper-club/

17:42 TR Bot; the anti-patent-troll group, launches Adapt to tackle inclusion in the world of IP TechCrunch

17:42 TR Bot; LOT Network is a One-Man (Millionaires) Operation and Why This Should Alarm You | Techrights

17:43 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=J1O5njTp8gY

17:43 TR Bot; Reggie Watts (2009) - Nobody Needs a Whole Croissant - Invidious

17:47 matey; Michelle Wolf: Titanic Explains How White Women Are the Problem

17:47 matey; :)

17:47 matey; XD

17:47 matey; i havent seen it, the title is good enough for me

17:48 TR News; ShotSpotter for crackpots https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/28/city-of-chicago-chicago-pd-officers-sued-over-their-use-of-questionable-shotspotter-technology/ | Source: Techdirt

17:48 TR Bot; Of Chicago, Chicago PD Officers Sued Over Their Use Of Questionable ShotSpotter Technology | Techdirt

17:52 matey; failed on the first go

17:52 matey; totally saw the duck. rabbit after.

17:52 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=7inNICSFxzc

17:52 TR News; "FCC under both Trump and Biden" https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/28/u-s-isps-that-ripped-out-huawei-gear-after-promise-of-fcc-funding-now-struggle-to-get-fcc-funding/ | Source: Techdirt

17:52 TR Bot; 10 Signs You're Actually Normal.. - Invidious

17:52 TR Bot; ISPs That Ripped Out Huawei Gear After Promise Of FCC Funding Now Struggle To Get FCC Funding | Techdirt

17:52 matey; didnt even see the rabbit until it was mentioned

17:53 TR News; Khrushcheva https://www.democracynow.org/2022/7/28/nina_khrushcheva_dont_cancel_russian_culture | Source: Democracy Now

17:53 TR Bot; Nina Khrushcheva: Dont Cancel Russian Culture. Collective Punishment Plays into Putins Hands. | Democracy Now!

17:53 matey; woman first, but saw the dude right away

17:54 TR News; The presidents sidekick Nellie Simon isnt fulfilling her Office duties; staff isnt amused http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/too-busy-to-get-real-work-done/

17:54 TR Bot; EPO VP4 Nellie Simon: 24/7 Day and Night, Only One Hour to Speak to EPO Staff | Techrights

17:54 TR News; Chinas official policy is that it'll migrate away from Windows; so far this year the effect can be seen and Microsoft seems to have responded by technical sabotage http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/windows-in-china/

17:54 TR Bot; Microsoft Windows in Chinese Desktops/Laptops Down to 80% (Hence Microsoft Started Blocking GNU/Linux From Even Booting, as Chinas Lenovo Demonstrates) | Techrights

17:58 TR News; "ISP Bright House and several music companies go to trial next week." https://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-and-isp-bright-house-go-to-trial-over-pirating-subscribers-220728/ | Source: Torrent Freak

17:58 TR Bot; Labels and ISP Bright House go to Trial over Pirating Subscribers * TorrentFreak

17:58 TR News; "five people have been charged" https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-iptv-five-charged-following-rcmp-cybercrime-investigation-220728/ | Source: Torrent Freak

17:58 TR Bot; IPTV: Five Charged Following RCMP Cybercrime Investigation * TorrentFreak

6 PM, July 29

18:01 *techuser (~techuser@gbgr2jcp6yrt2.irc) has joined #techrights

18:08 *techuser has quit (connection closed)

18:08 *techuser (~techuser@grivfyit76hza.irc) has joined #techrights

18:09 TR News; Telepolis https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/28/noam-chomsky-we-can-free-ourselves-state-capitalism | Source: Common Dreams

18:09 TR Bot; Opinion | Noam Chomsky: We Can Free Ourselves from State Capitalism | David Goemann

18:16 TR News; "The U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis released a new report Thursday following a yearlong investigation into the eviction practices of Pretium Partners" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/28/report-details-abusive-eviction-tactics-corporate-landlords-during-height-pandemic | Source: Common Dreams

18:16 TR Bot; Report Details 'Abusive' Eviction Tactics by Corporate Landlords During Height of Pandemic

18:17 TR News; Patents kill. And some people profits from it. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/28/vaccine-equity-activists-denounce-pfizers-obscene-pandemic-windfall | Source: Common Dreams

18:17 TR Bot; Vaccine Equity Activists Denounce Pfizer's 'Obscene' Pandemic Windfall

18:19 XRevan86; matey: I'll just drop it.

18:19 matey; ive figured out how to make the algorithm hundreds of times more efficient with just a few lines added and zero extra loops

18:20 matey; i would have done it sooner if id known (just how much) it was needed

18:20 matey; this fucking thing might never finish otherwise

18:20 TR News; anxiety, despair https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/28/four-ways-improve-anxiety-and-despair-amid-never-ending-bad-news | Source: Common Dreams

18:20 TR Bot; Opinion | Four Ways to Improve Anxiety and Despair Amid Never-Ending Bad News | Zoe Weil

18:21 matey; if its not done in a few hours, it will be worth stopping it and starting it over with the new code (which i havent written yet)

18:21 matey; pretty straightforward change

18:21 TR News; Games: GE-Proton 7-27, Bottles, DOOM, and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167795 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/Games:_GE-Proton_7-27,_Bottles,_DOOM,_and_More.shtml #news

18:21 TR Bot; Games: GE-Proton 7-27, Bottles, DOOM, and More | Tux Machines

18:21 TR Bot; Games: GE-Proton 7-27, Bottles, DOOM, and More

18:26 MinceR; 29 184001 < techrights-news> Ask EFF if people who oppose abortion also have digital rights.

18:26 MinceR; do those people care about "digital rights"?

18:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

18:38 schestowitz[TR2]; MinceR: that relates to my question ^_^

18:39 schestowitz[TR2]; they care for some other things

18:39 schestowitz[TR2]; EFF's goals are a side dish

18:40 TR News; "This bill would allow employers to trample on the rights of an untold numbers of workers." https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/28/propelled-victory-dem-leaders-cuellar-says-725-too-much-millions-workers | Source: Common Dreams

18:40 MinceR; yeah, they care for fundamentalism and authoritarianism

18:40 TR Bot; Propelled to Victory by Dem Leaders, Cuellar Says $7.25 Too Much for Millions of Workers

18:44 matey; the biggest and bloodiest wars happened after money was invented

18:44 MinceR; also after religion was invented

18:44 matey; and some of the worst war criminals were against religion (though not necessary the worst war criminals BECAUSE they were against religion, because the religious had some nasty ones too) but im sure its a coincidence

18:44 MinceR; and also after the idea that some people have the right to be in charge of others was invented

18:45 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

18:45 matey; and also after the idea that some people have the right to be in charge of others was invented <- yes but i think that was a BIT farther back

18:45 MinceR; probably only really against _most_ religions

18:45 matey; stalin was against all religions except stalinism

18:46 matey; and he was a jealous god

18:46 MinceR; which was an offshoot of leninism, which was an offshoot of marxism

18:46 matey; i wouldnt say it was marxism any more than id say jeffery dahmerism was an offshoot of christianity

18:47 matey; i wouldnt say it was leninism either, but ill settle for it not being marxist

18:47 matey; certainly he claimed it was an offshoot of marxism

18:48 matey; much like the baptists say theyre christian but i dont recall jesus blowing up any abortion clincis

18:48 matey; or clinics for that matter

18:48 TR News; "outsized importance live sports has on the adoption of streaming as a primary entertainment platform compared with traditional cable." https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/28/the-nfls-new-streaming-offering-kind-of-sucks-thanks-to-legacy-broadcasting-rights/ | Source: Techdirt

18:48 TR Bot; NFLs New Streaming Offering Kind Of Sucks Thanks To Legacy Broadcasting Rights | Techdirt

18:50 matey; its almost like what rome did to christianity

18:50 matey; stalin decided to make the state into a god

18:50 matey; which was convenient since he was the state

18:51 matey; then again this is also what led to his death so maybe not as good an idea as he thought

18:51 matey; he was also into that infallibility thing

18:51 schestowitz[TR2]; https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/roaming-charges-63/

18:51 TR Bot; Charges: Tell Tom Joad the News - CounterPunch.org

18:51 schestowitz[TR2]; "Ticket prices for Springsteens Born to Run tour in 1975 averaged about $8 for general admission. ($7.50 in Upper Darby, PA, when he played venues that small.) The minimum wage was $2.10 per hour. So a kid had to work less than half a day to earn enough to go to the gig. Today the minimum wage is a miserly $7.25 an hour. But the price of tickets for this falls Springsteen tour ranges from $100 to more than $5000 a piece. The

18:51 schestowitz[TR2]; cheapest price I could find for the Portland show was a restricted view seat from behind the stage selling for $136which means that a Springsteen fan who works at a minimum wage job (assuming he has any left) would have to work nearly 3 full days to buy a crappy ticket. Landau said the absurd ticket prices were afair price to see someone universally regarded as among the very greatest artists of his generation.They c

18:51 schestowitz[TR2]; all him the boss for a reason. Now go tell Tom Joad the news."

18:52 TR News; "Given that the primary role of unions is to advocate for the interests of their members on the job" https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/organized-labor-and-the-crisis-of-democracy/ | Source: Counter Punch

18:52 TR Bot; Labor and the Crisis of Democracy - CounterPunch.org

18:52 matey; all him the boss for a reason <- i think this has more to do with the labels

18:53 MinceR; i'm not familiar with jeffrey dahmerism

18:53 matey; it didnt have many followers

18:53 MinceR; 29 194810 < matey> much like the baptists say theyre christian but i dont recall jesus blowing up any abortion clincis

18:53 matey; and even those didnt last long (unless he used plastic wrap)

18:53 MinceR; there's something in scripture (which already existed before christianity) that they believe justifies banning abortion

18:54 MinceR; one of the problems with the bible is that it's inconsistent and vague

18:54 matey; actually that wasnt always a problem

18:54 MinceR; so all sorts of nutcases can find something in there to support their ideology and justify their acts

18:54 matey; which supports my poin

18:54 matey; so all sorts of nutcases can find something <- this option was always open

18:54 matey; but fundamentalism, and specifically literalism came along

18:54 matey; thanks to rome, you know

18:55 matey; and sort of triumphed over the traditional way of reading the old testament

18:55 matey; of course on the rabbinic side you have another kettle of fish

18:56 matey; gradually transforming torah into something more literal through rabbis coding laws around it

18:56 matey; which is the same problem, but not as bad as having people do the trailer park tv preacher version

18:56 MinceR; to me it seems that not insisting on being literal gives one more options, not fewer

18:56 matey; nonetheless this came much later

18:56 matey; not insisting on being literal gives one more options, not fewer <- thats exactly what it does

18:56 matey; even today

18:57 matey; but some people liked literalism, because theyre stupid

18:57 MinceR; so how is literalism the culprit here?

18:57 matey; i mean its responsible for the bulk of what youre complaining about

18:57 matey; not all of it, certainly most of it

18:58 matey; did i misread this "not insisting on being literal gives one more options, not fewer"

18:58 matey; because it certainly follows

18:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

18:59 MinceR; probably

18:59 matey; when it was less literal there was more room for interpretation

18:59 TR News; Bailout out the rich, at the expense of the poor https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/the-semi-conductor-bill-and-the-moderna-billionaires/ | Source: Counter Punch

18:59 TR Bot; Semi-Conductor Bill and the Moderna Billionaires - CounterPunch.org

18:59 matey; less to fight over

18:59 matey; when it was more literal, now disagreements became splits

18:59 MinceR; in one case, you get to "justify" something if you can find some text that literally says what you want

7 PM, July 29

19:00 MinceR; in the other case, even that is not necessary, you just wave your hands

19:00 MinceR; and scripture supports your "point"

19:00 matey; waving your hands is less compelling than "theres only one way to read this"

19:00 matey; which do you think lent itself to bloodier wars

19:00 MinceR; well, there's that

19:00 matey; i mean history supports my argument-- its based on what actually happened

19:00 MinceR; though i think people should be more difficult to compel than either of those

19:00 matey; you sound like youre agreeing, until you insist otherwise

19:01 matey; but if you dont agree, then youre throwing out what happened and how it played out historically

19:01 matey; the more literal it got, the more contentious and bloody it got

19:01 matey; the more fundamentalism sprang up

19:01 matey; though even i would say that had as much to do with other disparities

19:02 matey; what changed is that religion had less power to bring people together

19:02 MinceR; correlation does not imply causation, though :>

19:02 matey; but either way its bad

19:02 matey; i mean we can always fall back on that

19:02 matey; and if we do so enough, the only way we will ever be convinced of causation is when its also unsupported by correlation :)

19:05 matey; sooner or later there will be an explanation that is plausible in how it works

19:05 matey; whic goes beyond correlation

19:05 matey; but if it works, correlation will also b a likely biproduct

19:08 matey; the problem with correlation is it doesnt narrow it down enough. it doesnt rule out post hoc coincidence

19:08 TR News; Welcome to SCaLE 19x - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=g52MGi_H2j8 | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/g52MGi_H2j8

19:08 TR Bot; Welcome to SCaLE 19x - Invidious

19:09 matey; if i sneeze while typing, how do i know that i didnt sneeze the letters onto the screen

19:09 TR News; Valves a distro maintainer, now. They need a "patch Tuesday." - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=g9-e-zu1QKw | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/g9-e-zu1QKw

19:09 TR Bot; Valve's a distro maintainer, now. They need a "patch Tuesday." - Invidious

19:09 matey; i know how a keyboard works (some may dispute this)

19:09 TR News; Unlocking the Steam Deck - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=GBvlMvivCnI | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/GBvlMvivCnI

19:09 TR Bot; Unlocking the Steam Deck - Invidious

19:10 matey; both the sneeze and the typing qualify as correlation, but the sneeze is a coincidence

19:10 TR News; Sysadmins are Super Heroes! (System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022) - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=fSDfgFduog8 | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/fSDfgFduog8 http://techrights.org/2019/07/17/we-are-the-windows-powered-linux-foundation/

19:10 TR Bot; Sysadmins are Super Heroes! (System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022) - Invidious

19:10 TR Bot; Linux Foundation Apparently Celebrates Sysadmin Day With a Microsoft Windows Site! | Techrights

19:11 matey; the underlying mechanism is the way out of a sea of correlative possibilities

19:11 TR News; Enterprise Linux Security Episode 37 - System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022 - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=pBrBDInJms8 | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/pBrBDInJms8 http://techrights.org/2019/07/17/we-are-the-windows-powered-linux-foundation/

19:11 *techrights_guest|2 (~49efb820@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #techrights

19:11 TR Bot; Enterprise Linux Security Episode 37 - System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022 - Invidious

19:11 *techrights_guest|2 has quit (Quit: Connection closed)

19:11 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167796 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/howtos_2.shtml #news

19:11 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines

19:12 TR Bot; today's howtos

19:12 matey; i pressed the keys. and a good 70 percent of the time :) i get the same letters i pressed

19:12 matey; the rest are a product of a faulty keyboard, clearly

19:12 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

19:15 TR News; How Tor is fightingand beatingRussian censorship https://www.wired.co.uk/article/tor-browser-russia-blocks says Conde Nast, which shelters pedophiles as editors

19:15 TR Bot; How Tor Is Fightingand BeatingRussian Censorship | WIRED UK

19:16 TR News; Audiocasts/Shows: SCaLE19x, Valve, and System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167797 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/AudiocastsShows:_SCaLE19x,_Valve,_and_System_Administrator_Appreciation_Day_2022.shtml #news

19:16 TR Bot; Audiocasts/Shows: SCaLE19x, Valve, and System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022 | Tux Machines

19:16 TR Bot; Audiocasts/Shows: SCaLE19x, Valve, and System Administrator Appreciation Day 2022

19:18 TR News; This is an interesting (and concerning) type of rootkits. Hard to tell how much of it really is in the wild at the moment. https://securelist.com/cosmicstrand-uefi-firmware-rootkit/106973/ http://techrights.org/wiki/UEFI#2022

19:18 TR Bot; the discovery of a sophisticated UEFI firmware rootkit | Securelist

19:18 TR Bot; UEFI - Techrights

19:19 TR News; NVIDIA with Wayland on GNOME gemini://remyabel.srht.site/posts/2022-07-29.gmi

19:19 *matey has quit (connection closed)

19:22 MinceR; https://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/apples.png ( https://explosm.net/comics/rob-apples#comic )

19:22 TR Bot; & Happiness (Explosm.net)

19:27 *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@v82ybat7z5fr6.irc) has joined #techrights

19:31 DaemonFC; Anyone who would pay that to see Bruce Springsteen is a douche.

19:31 DaemonFC; So that settles it.

19:34 DaemonFC; schestowitz[TR2], He knows there's plenty of boomers who got rich by being landlords and other parasites.

19:34 DaemonFC; Paying that much to see him in concert isn't that much.

19:34 DaemonFC; They can always raise the rent $200 a month.

19:37 TR News; Links 29/07/2022: Linux Foundation is Greenwashing Microsoft | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/29/linux-foundation-greenwashing-microsoft/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/29/linux-foundation-greenwashing-microsoft/

19:37 TR Bot; Links 29/07/2022: Linux Foundation is Greenwashing Microsoft | Techrights

19:38 TR News; Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167798 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/Security_Leftovers.shtml #news

19:38 TR Bot; Security Leftovers | Tux Machines

19:38 TR Bot; Security Leftovers

19:39 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167799 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/Programming_Leftovers.shtml #news

19:39 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines

19:39 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers

19:39 TR News; Devices: Raspberry PI Pico and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167800 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/Devices:_Raspberry_PI_Pico_and_More.shtml #news

19:39 TR Bot; Devices: Raspberry PI Pico and More | Tux Machines

19:39 TR Bot; Devices: Raspberry PI Pico and More

19:39 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167801 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/29/today%27s_leftovers.shtml #news

19:39 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines

19:39 TR Bot; today's leftovers

19:42 DaemonFC; WGN was talking about "lottery jackpots", so I replied:

19:42 DaemonFC; Each week, they sell about hundreds of millions of tickets that lose. They take most of the money. The pot grows until 8-9 weeks in, someone wins. After the state took half the money. Then when someone wins after billions of $20 tickets were sold (where the government already took half), they tax it and take half the "winnings". In the mean time, they pay "the news" to blast lottery propaganda about "winnings".

19:42 DaemonFC; Most of the people who play the lottery a lot are poor and will never win anything and don't understand just how bad the odds really are. This enables the state to avoid taxing rich people because they can get poor people to pay for everything through the lottery scam.

19:42 DaemonFC; Eventually, when someone does win, it usually results in "the lottery winner's curse". It will go to someone with such poor money management skills that $300 million dollars disappears in 4-5 years and they die penniless in a trailer park.

19:46 DaemonFC; In most states, the lottery wasn't even legal until about 1990. In Indiana it wasn't legal until about 1990, which is when the state realized just how much money it was foregoing by legalizing gambling, which is socially undesirable and ruins lives with addiction. Since the lottery was legalized, the state lied about where the money would go. It said roads and public pensions, then it cut taxes on the rich and stuffed the lottery money into the

19:46 DaemonFC; general fund.

19:46 DaemonFC; Today, Illinois does the same thing with weed, and after they want to spend even more than the casinos, lottery, and legal dope take in, perhaps they'll make crack, shrooms, acid, meth, and opioids legal too. Then prostitution will be fine because the state is your pimp, drug dealer, and gambling hustler.

19:48 TR News; CEOs https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/its-time-to-crackdown-on-the-excessive-pay-of-ceos/ | Source: Counter Punch

19:48 TR Bot; Time to Crackdown on the Excessive Pay of CEOs - CounterPunch.org

19:50 TR News; Weaponization https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/the-weaponization-of-food/ | Source: Counter Punch

19:50 TR Bot; Weaponization of Food - CounterPunch.org

19:51 TR News; "macro keypad" https://hackaday.com/2022/07/28/a-customizable-macropad-to-make-anyones-tail-wag/ | Source: Hackaday

19:51 TR Bot; Customizable Macropad To Make Anyones Tail Wag | Hackaday

19:52 *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights

19:52 TR News; "The C64 may be the best-selling computer of all time" https://hackaday.com/2022/07/28/hackaday-prize-2022-a-functional-commodore-pet-tribute/ | Source: Hackaday

19:52 TR Bot; Prize 2022: A Functional Commodore PET Tribute | Hackaday

19:55 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

19:56 schestowitz[TR2]; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=JS91p-vmSf0

19:56 TR Bot; Franz Schubert: Erlknig - Invidious

19:57 TR News; "fears of a looming recession"... oh yea... EVERYTHING IS FINE NOW... but there MIGHT be ... a "recession" they say https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/28/recession-fears-spark-calls-stop-hiking-interest-rates-and-rein-corporate-greed | Source: Common Dreams

19:58 TR Bot; Recession Fears Spark Calls to Stop Hiking Interest Rates and Rein In Corporate Greed

19:58 TR News; "Workers at a Massachusetts Trader Joe's on Thursday voted to become the first of the supermarket chain's more than 500 locations to unionize" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/28/victory-historic-massachusetts-trader-joes-becomes-first-unionize | Source: Common Dreams

19:58 TR Bot; 'This Victory Is Historic': Massachusetts Trader Joe's Becomes First to Unionize

19:58 schestowitz[TR2]; DaemonFC: there might be a rescission ... MIGHT

19:58 schestowitz[TR2]; GDP deflating for several quarters

19:58 schestowitz[TR2]; GAFAM blaming "weak dollar"

19:58 schestowitz[TR2]; carry on buying

19:58 schestowitz[TR2]; it'll be fine soon :-)

19:59 schestowitz[TR2]; stockpile aitrpods

19:59 MinceR; https://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/sometime.png ( https://explosm.net/comics/kris-sometime#comic )

19:59 DaemonFC; It's not a weak dollar, though.

19:59 TR Bot; & Happiness (Explosm.net)

19:59 schestowitz[TR2]; support the economy

19:59 DaemonFC; The Dollar Index is at 107, last I looked.

19:59 DaemonFC; That's unusually strong.

19:59 schestowitz[TR2]; Microsoft finds something to blame

19:59 DaemonFC; It's been as low as 70-80 and we were fine then.

19:59 schestowitz[TR2]; the bailouts were not enough

19:59 TR News; "We think of data storage as a modern problem, but even ancient civilizations kept records." https://hackaday.com/2022/07/28/inca-knots-inspire-quantum-computer/ | Source: Hackaday

19:59 TR Bot; Knots Inspire Quantum Computer | Hackaday

8 PM, July 29

20:00 DaemonFC; schestowitz[TR2], So it goes from 70 to 107 and strengthens greatly, that implies that a strong dollar could be the problem.

20:00 DaemonFC; Their export markets can't afford their products and cut back due to weak Euros and Yen and stuff.

20:01 DaemonFC; A weak Euro isn't the only reason why their foreign markets are in the shitter.

20:01 DaemonFC; I'd be pretty pissed if I had to live in Europe and gasoline was $9 a gallon and the government was dipping into the emergency natural gas for winter in the middle of July.

20:01 schestowitz[TR2]; here is the thing

20:01 schestowitz[TR2]; in the US it's hard without s car

20:01 schestowitz[TR2]; for many reasons

20:02 schestowitz[TR2]; inc. lack of decent public transport

20:02 DaemonFC; Government running off with 70% of your income.

20:02 schestowitz[TR2]; in european cities it can be simpler getting by without a car

20:02 schestowitz[TR2]; cars consume a lot of energy, sometimes more than a whole home of 5 people

20:02 DaemonFC; The only way to make do without a car is live in a crime infested Democrat shithole.

20:02 DaemonFC; Where the public transit is a liability that ferries around criminals with illegal guns who attack the bus driver with a frozen chicken.

20:03 DaemonFC; One guy actually brought gasoline on board the train and set himself on fire and the police had to drag him out.

20:03 DaemonFC; I mean, who wants to ride that?

20:03 DaemonFC; Nobody with a choice, Roy. Nobody with a choice.

20:05 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

20:08 TR News; Commodore 64 https://hackaday.com/2022/07/28/new-os-for-commodore-64-adds-modern-features/ | Source: Hackaday

20:08 TR Bot; OS For Commodore 64 Adds Modern Features | Hackaday

20:09 TR News; "8-bit computer revolution" https://hackaday.com/2022/07/29/perseus-9-the-dual-6502-portable-machine-that-should-have-been/ | Source: Hackaday

20:09 TR Bot; The Dual-6502 Portable Machine That Should Have Been | Hackaday

20:12 schestowitz[TR2]; DaemonFC: public transport can be a pain anywhere

20:12 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

20:12 schestowitz[TR2]; we just walk a lot

20:12 schestowitz[TR2]; even cycling can be good

20:12 schestowitz[TR2]; in warmer days

20:12 DaemonFC; Yeah, they have to let anyone ride it. They were court ordered they can't ban anyone.

20:13 XRevan86; CIT (War in Ukraine): https://telegra.ph/July-28-dispatch-07-29

20:13 TR Bot; July 28 dispatch Telegraph

20:13 DaemonFC; So you can literally shoot someone on the train and if they parole you, they have to let you back on the train.

20:14 TR News; "Over a summer sup on the back lawn the other night, a Times-reading, MSNBCwatching, NPRlistening neighbor..." https://scheerpost.com/2022/07/28/patrick-lawrence-the-causes-of-things/ | Source: Scheerpost

20:14 TR Bot; Lawrence: The Causes of Things scheerpost.com

20:14 DaemonFC; schestowitz[TR2], Turnstile jumping is something that goes on all the time.

20:14 DaemonFC; The police don't really enforce it much. Don't do it if you're white.

20:14 DaemonFC; Nobody is going to raise hell, so they'll arrest you.

20:15 DaemonFC; There are actually liberal groups who say turnstile jumping shouldn't be enforced against black people because making them pay $2 like everyone else does is racist.

20:15 DaemonFC; Yeah, I'm sure they were on their way to a job interview when they realized they left their wallet in their other pants, lady! :)

20:17 DaemonFC; No time to go back for it or they'd be late for the job interview. And the illegal gun the police found? That was obviously planted. Besides, it was for a security job. If the Johns don't pay, what else are you supposed to do with them?

20:17 DaemonFC; It's all very explainable.

20:17 DaemonFC; schestowitz[TR2], You know what I always say. If you're committing a felony, don't commit a petty offense that draws attention.

20:18 DaemonFC; They'll happily evade a $2 fare while they have an illegal handgun in their pocket.

20:20 DaemonFC; Police look for minor offenses and "tells".

20:20 DaemonFC; A "tell" is not an offense, but it gets you flagged for more scrutiny, like deliberately avoiding eye contact (making an effort to not look in their general direction).

20:21 DaemonFC; So you forget that you're doing something illegal and act naturally.

20:21 *techuser (~techuser@ws2bs482xtmk6.irc) has joined #techrights

20:21 DaemonFC; I mean, when I was a teenager, I walked past cops with cigarettes in my pocket.

20:22 DaemonFC; My neighbor was the chief of police and I'd be sitting outside in my back yard drinking a beer and smoking a cigar.

20:22 XRevan86; https://pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/29/7360893/

20:22 TR Bot; Explosion in the Olenivka penal colony planned and executed by the Russian Federation ? conversation intercepted by SSU | Ukrainska Pravda

20:22 XRevan86; https://pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/29/7360947/

20:22 TR Bot; ICRC submitted a request to visit Olenivka | Ukrainska Pravda

20:22 DaemonFC; There's really not much they can do to kids for minor misdemeanors anyway.

20:23 DaemonFC; They can lock you up for a weekend and have a judge yell at you and pretend what's coming is a big deal.

20:23 DaemonFC; Then your record gets wiped when you turn 18.

20:23 DaemonFC; I got all my community service hours in on one day at the park pulling weeds.

20:23 DaemonFC; Eh, who cares?

20:24 DaemonFC; It's not like they catch you smoking and you get 100 lashes in public square and that'll teach you!

20:54 TR News; Patents https://truthout.org/articles/gop-opposition-to-drug-pricing-bill-shows-scope-of-big-pharmas-grip-on-congress/ | Source: TruthOut

20:54 TR Bot; GOP Opposition to Drug Pricing Bill Shows Scope of Big Pharmas Grip on Congress

20:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

9 PM, July 29

21:00 XRevan86; The Azov regiment surrendered under an agreement between Russia and the UN / Red Cross. So is going to be whether the UN is going to eat this shit up or they're going to do something.

21:00 XRevan86; And so I pressed Enter accidentally and botched the message.

21:00 XRevan86; * So I'm going to look at whether

21:10 TR News; Linux Mint 21 Vanessa Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167802

21:10 TR Bot; Linux Mint 21 Vanessa Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines

21:23 *darwin has quit (connection closed)

21:25 psydroid2; I've just run Geekbench for my HP Zbook Studio G3 and the results are only about 30% behind those of AMD's new entry-level APU to be launched later this year

21:26 psydroid2; are these companies completely taking the piss out of their customers?

21:28 MinceR; the UN rarely does anything

21:29 DaemonFC; schestowitz[TR2], I was reading about a game called XBill.

21:29 MinceR; and when it does it's typically either spreading propaganda or lobbying for laws that someone pays them to do

21:29 DaemonFC; Fedora refused to package it in 2009 because Red Hat's legal said it "disparaged" Bill Gates and Microsoft.

21:29 DaemonFC; And went beyond parody into something they worried they'd be sued over.

21:29 MinceR; the ICRC also rarely does anything, and when they do it's outragism against video games

21:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-28.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-29.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi

21:31 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:34 MinceR; https://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/costume3.png ( https://explosm.net/comics/kris-costume-2#comic )

21:34 TR Bot; & Happiness (Explosm.net)

21:43 XRevan86; MinceR: Does look that way.

21:44 XRevan86; MinceR: But the UN gave assurances to Ukraine, and maybe, just maybe, this personal violation will make them move a little. Who knows?

21:44 MinceR; \_()_/

21:45 MinceR; maybe a GRB will hit us and end this circus quickly

21:47 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

21:54 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights

10 PM, July 29

22:02 DaemonFC; https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/article%3Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.nytimes.com%252F2022%252F07%252F29%252Fbusiness%252Fstrong-profits-shaky-economy.html

22:02 TR Bot; Gemini Portal

22:03 DaemonFC; "On the earnings call for McDonalds, the companys chief financial officer said some of its customers were choosing value offerings over others. On Chipotles earnings call, its chief executive, Brian Niccol, said: The low-income consumer definitely has pulled back their purchase frequency. Fortunately, for Chipotle, that is not the majority of our customers."

22:03 DaemonFC; "Big retailers like Walmart have said their customers are spending so much on must-have items like food and fuel that theyre eschewing higher-cost merchandise, like clothes and home goods. Since shoppers are still spending at Walmart for the staples, the company and to a certain extent, the economy still benefits from their purchases, though the shift has hit its profit margins and helped pummel its stock."

22:03 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Greenspan said he followed sales of men's underwear to get an idea about recessions.

22:04 DaemonFC; Walmart says clothing sales have hit the skids.

22:04 DaemonFC; People are avoiding clothes to put food in their cart.

22:04 DaemonFC; "Economy great, never better, nothing to see here! 4% unemployment!"

22:10 MinceR; (cat) https://pleated-jeans.com/2022/07/29/terrible-coffee-mugs-at-the-office/

22:10 TR Bot; This Account Shares Pics Of Terrible Mugs People Like To Sip Out Of At Work (35 Pics)

22:26 britney; TMNT: Shredder's Revenge is awesome

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22:47 MinceR; https://pleated-jeans.com/2022/06/28/cursed-shirts/

22:47 TR Bot; 69 Shirts With Auras That Are Equal Parts Threatening And Bizarre

22:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 31.55 k/sec., IPFS upstream 15.05 average k/sec., average swarm size 0

11 PM, July 29

23:00 *CrystalMath (~coderain@zpvtapq2in23w.irc) has joined #techrights

23:17 TR News; Oh, immunity? https://truthout.org/articles/trump-claims-absolute-immunity-protects-him-against-jan-6-civil-lawsuits/ | Source: TruthOut

23:17 TR Bot; Trump Claims "Absolute Immunity" Protects Him Against Jan. 6 Civil Lawsuits

23:22 MinceR; https://pleated-jeans.com/2022/06/27/that-name-isnt-a-tragedeigh-its-a-murghdyrr-22-hilariously-unfortunate-names-parents-have-given-their-kids/

23:22 TR Bot; "That Name Isn't A Tragedeigh, It's A Murghdyrr" 22 Hilariously Unfortunate Names Parents Have Given Their Kids

23:22 TR News; "See a pattern? Leave your nations money in a western bank, and it might not be yours for very long" https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/29/the-west-cant-stop-pillaging-other-countries-bank-accounts/ | Source: Counter Punch

23:22 TR Bot; West Cant Stop Pillaging Other Countries Bank Accounts - CounterPunch.org

23:26 TR News; While criminals from Microsoft start outright blocking dual boot or just Linux boot... the Microsoft boosters ramp up the ATTACK on GNU/Linux, dubbed WSL (Windows misusing the brand "Linux") https://www.maketecheasier.com/improve-wsl-experience/

23:26 TR Bot; 5 Things to Do to Improve Your WSL Experience - Make Tech Easier

23:27 TR News; There are so many Microsoft Zero-Days and Microsoft even shares them with the NSA (back doors) https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/07/microsoft-zero-days-sold-and-then-used.html

23:27 TR Bot; Zero-Days Sold and then Used - Schneier on Security

23:28 TR News; Microsoft claiming to value security is an outright lie; it's just another blame game https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/07/microsoft-says-0-days-sold-by-austrian-firm-were-used-to-hack-customers/

23:28 TR Bot; 0-days sold by Austrian firm used to hack Windows users, Microsoft says | Ars Technica

23:29 TR News; Meanwhile, on many issues the FSF now lacks the courage to simply say what's true and what's factual.

23:30 TR News; Microsoft and Windows still dominate this list of "Known Exploited Vulnerabilit[ies]" https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/current-activity/2022/07/29/cisa-adds-one-known-exploited-vulnerability-catalog

23:30 TR Bot; CISA Adds One Known Exploited Vulnerability to Catalog | CISA

23:31 TR News; NSA Bruce is now a megaphone of Conde Nast. Any lie he reads in a site edited by Microsoft pedophiles (literally raping kids, arrested; colleagues knew) must be "facts"...

23:32 TR News; Efficient Infrastructure Testing | Pen Test Partners https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/efficient-infrastructure-testing/ Source: pentestpartners | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/efficient-infrastructure-testing/

23:32 TR Bot; Efficient Infrastructure Testing | Pen Test Partners

23:33 schestowitz[TR2]; <DaemonFC> schestowitz[TR2], I was reading about a game called XBill.

23:33 schestowitz[TR2]; named after xbiff?

23:34 DaemonFC; You have to kill a bunch of "Bills" that are trying to install Windows on computers.

23:34 DaemonFC; Then if they manage to do it, you have to fix the computer by rescuing its operating system, and putting it back on the computer while other Bills are attacking other computers with Windows.

23:35 schestowitz[TR2]; packaging it might give the wrong idea

23:35 schestowitz[TR2]; that Red Hat competes with Microsoft :-)

23:35 schestowitz[TR2]; or that Bill Gates is a criminal (he is)

23:36 TR News; Canonical: "he 1.10 update brings some other nice features, particularly for Windows users. Windows Pro machines can now take advantage of generation 2 virtual machines through Hyper-V. These new VMs support a variety of boot features, including UEFI, secure boot, and more." Screw Canonical. https://ubuntu.com//blog/multipass-1-10-brings-new-instance-modification-capabilities

23:36 TR Bot; 1.10 brings new instance modification capabilities | Ubuntu

23:37 TR News; Canonical prioritising Microsoft again? http://techrights.org/2021/07/09/canonical-ubuntu-microsoft/

23:37 TR Bot; Canonical Dooms the Ubuntu Brand to Appease Microsoft | Techrights

23:38 TR News; Microsoft is Basically Buying the Competition to Deny GNU/Linux Users a Choice http://techrights.org/2021/07/08/buying-the-competition/

23:38 TR Bot; Microsoft is Basically Buying the Competition to Deny GNU/Linux Users a Choice | Techrights

23:40 TR News; Linux Around The World: Slovenia - LinuxLinks https://www.linuxlinks.com/linux-slovenia/ Source: LinuxLinks | GNU | Linux | FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//www.linuxlinks.com/linux-slovenia/

23:40 TR Bot; Around The World: Slovenia - LinuxLinks

23:43 TR News; "Linux and Python were my best friends in 2000." https://linuxfoundation.org/blog/lf/people-of-open-source-neville-spiteri-wevr/ Maybe 'LF' can learn from him then. James Zemlin and Sheela Microsoft DO NOT USE Linux. They reject Linux. http://techrights.org/2022/05/14/microsoft-breadwinner/

23:43 TR Bot; People of Open Source: Neville Spiteri, Wevr - Linux Foundation

23:43 TR Bot; Who Brings Home the Bacon (Revenue), Sheela or James (Jim)? | Techrights

23:44 TR News; "At work-work there are educational sessions for the software team. They last about 2 hours, generally filled with a mix of watching a talk, discussing how the talk applies to the codebase, and individual developers presenting something." https://euroquis.nl//blabla/2022/07/29/presentations.html

23:44 TR Bot; Mini-Talks Published | [bobulate]

23:49 TR News; Proprietary software again in Mozilla's blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/internet-culture/interviews/riot-games-aureylian-game-streaming-interview/

23:49 TR Bot; Riot Games head of player community, known as Aureylian to game streaming fans, on her favorite corners of the internet

23:50 TR News; "While the last months have been pretty quiet in terms of new content for Firefox, were approaching a new major release for 2022, and that will include new features and dedicated onboarding." https://blog.mozilla.org/l10n/2022/07/29/l10n-report-july-2022-edition/

23:50 TR Bot; L10n Report: July 2022 Edition | Mozilla L10N

23:51 TR News; "Recruitment and retention are top of mind" but ICBM/Red Hat are totally failing on that https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/focus-areas-leading-it-organizations

23:51 TR Bot; Future-proof your IT organization by focusing on these 5 priorities | The Enterprisers Project

23:53 TR News; "URGENT: our domain has been stolen and will stop working on 29 July 2022" https://suicide.fyi/

23:53 TR Bot; Suicide & Debian FYI

23:55 TR News; The best Linux distros for gaming Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167803

23:55 TR Bot; The best Linux distros for gaming | Tux Machines

23:56 TR News; "This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden." https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-21-3-ruah-released/114220/58

23:56 TR Bot; Manjaro 21.3 Ruah released! - #58 by koshikas - Releases - Manjaro Linux Forum

23:58 TR News; Misleading headline! "...comes with Microsoft Windows preinstalled and supports Linux if preferred." So it's encumbered with WINDOWS malware. It's also a terrible deal, the Raspi 400 is twice as cheap. https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/windows-linux-keyboard-quad-core-computer-29-07-2022/

23:58 TR Bot; Windows Linux Quad Core keyboard computer - Geeky Gadgets

23:59 TR News; Performance Tools Newsletter (H1 2002) Mozilla Performance https://blog.mozilla.org/performance/2022/07/29/performance-tools-newsletter-h1-2002/ Source: Mozilla | WWW | FreeSW | Firefox | Internet

23:59 TR Bot; Performance Tools Newsletter (H1 2002) Mozilla Performance

IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Friday, July 29, 2022